Registered User
Joseph,Originally Posted by extrajoseph
I would like to come back to the origin of this thread, what are the core set of CLF?
Why people like DFW say they have the original manuscript of the style (written by chan Heung) how many original manuscript there are if even Chan Yong Fa say he have those books....
But above all who wrote all these manuscripts?
Chan Yu chi, Koon Pak??
Do you know something about this?
SY
Registered User
Joseph, it's a story told by Lun Tse....not Frank...
SY
Registered User
Hi SY,
I have to admit, Frank's history is not as bad as Lun Tse's insult on Chan Heung and we can see clearly who stirred the pot in the first place.
XJ
Registered User
Hi Sunyang,
As you know in the olden days people write their manuscript by hand, so originally there is only one copy and sometimes two at the most, the rest is usually hand copied by family members, they don't have photocopiers then.
Looking at what DFW has on his website, only a few are photo copies of Chan Yiu-Chi's original hand written manuscripts, the rest like the CLF History, is a hand copy by someone else and not the original. There are none by Koon Pak or Chan Heung.
Chen Yong Fa, being a direct descendant, would have access to all the manuscripts in the family archive and that would included works by Koon Pak and Chan Heung, as well as his father.
DFW also have manuscripts by his teacher Wong Kong an Hu Wan-Chek, some of them would have been copied from the Chen Family archive and some would be their own work. Students in the past would often make up their own "kuen-po" ("fist formula") after they learned a set from their teachers.
As to what were the original CLF sets, it is hard to pin down because in the olden days, the training emphasis was more on san-shou repetitions, that is working on a repetition of 2, 3, 4, 5, and 6 etc combinations rather than a complete set as we know them today. I would have imagine Ng Lun Ma and Ng Lun Chiu plus Si Men Kiu and Jo shang Ma would be older sets because they are close to san-shou combinations and a lot less "fancy" for the lack of a better word.
XJ
Registered User
Hi soulfist,
I agree with you, what we say is a reflection of who we are and that applies to you as well as me, but one can also do this face to face, so when you visit Chen Yong-Fa, you can always see what he chose to answer and what he chose to avoid, when he smiles and when he frawns, to "read" him, so my direct approach would also include your hidden observations.
But when you speak to another person about Chen Yong-Fa, this person, no matter how clever you can be, reading in between the lines, will still be his own point of view on Chen Yong-Fa, not how Chen Yong-Fa sees himself in front of you, so in my view it is still better to take to direct approach, you have nothing to loose, unless you are afraid that Chen Yong-Fa can "read" you as much as you claimed that you can "read" him.
Now I chose to answer you this question and in this way, what does it say about me? Just keep in mind, whether you'd choose to answer me or how you'd answer me will tell us something about you!
Now I can see why you chose "soulfist".
XJ
Last edited by extrajoseph; 09-09-2010 at 06:30 AM.
周洪龍 金山鴻勝武舘 - 鴻勝佛家正宗
YOUR elders completely fabricated a story and left US to try and sort it out. If you think just because chan yiu chi wrote down what HE wanted his people to believe as HUNG SING KWOON history then YOU and HE has performed an EPIC FAIL.Hi Frank,
Weak attempts? I did not have to do anything!
You and your elders’ ravings have shown us how their shadows of the past have casted a darkness over you.
They have led you astray and you are not able to see it, because you are such a good, loyal and faithful foot soldier.
It is not your fault, Brother Frank, I can understand it and I wish you well.
XJ
it was probably started by Chan Yiu Chi pushing his BS account of the Fut San Hung Sing Kwoon.
Hung Sing Boyz, we gottit on lock down
when he's around quick to ground and pound a clown
Bruh we thought you knew better
when it comes to head huntin, ain't no one can do it better
Banned Li Fut
Hi soulfist,
I agree with you, what we say is a reflection of who we are and that applies to you as well as me, but one can also do this face to face, so when you visit Chen Yong-Fa, you can always see what he chose to answer and what he chose to avoid, when he smiles and when he frawns, to "read" him, so my direct approach would also include your hidden observations.
But when you speak to another person about Chen Yong-Fa, this person, no matter how clever you can be, reading in between the lines, will still be his own point of view on Chen Yong-Fa, not how Chen Yong-Fa sees himself in front of you, so in my view it is still better to take to direct approach, you have nothing to loose, unless you are afraid that Chen Yong-Fa can "read" you as much as you claimed that you can "read" him.
Now I chose to answer you this question and in this way, what does it say about me? Just keep in mind, whether you'd choose to answer me or how you'd answer me will tell us something about you!
Now I can see why you chose "soulfist".
XJ
XJ,
Who do you study under?
The weakest of all weak things is a virtue that has not been tested in the fire.
~ Mark Twain
Everyone has a plan until they’ve been hit.
~ Joe Lewis
A warrior may choose pacifism; others are condemned to it.
~ Author unknown
"You don't feel lonely.Because you have a lively monkey"
"Ninja can HURT the Spartan, but the Spartan can KILL the Ninja"
周洪龍 金山鴻勝武舘 - 鴻勝佛家正宗
Joseph,
I get along with Chan Yong Fa's people because they have way more respect that you do Joseph. The reason why they don't speak up is cause they were told to AVOID forums like this. with that respect i made friends in that lineage. WE have adult conversations and respect each others position because both sides are willing to listen.
Joseph, your whole time here on this forum has been to spread YOUR misinformation. however you're just one person and this is just a forum. The Fut San Hung Sing Kwoon doesn't answer to the Chan Family, so our history the way we know it will continue to do its thing. this is why i don't take what you say serious.
Full of accusations....no real proof. no real answers. epic fail on your efforts to diffuse the drama between the CLF family.
Last edited by hskwarrior; 09-09-2010 at 07:48 AM.
Hung Sing Boyz, we gottit on lock down
when he's around quick to ground and pound a clown
Bruh we thought you knew better
when it comes to head huntin, ain't no one can do it better
周洪龍 金山鴻勝武舘 - 鴻勝佛家正宗
Chan Yiu Chi's account of Jeung Hung Sing's life and history is a complete fabrication filled with MISINFORMATION. For example:Looking at what DFW has on his website, only a few are photo copies of Chan Yiu-Chi's original hand written manuscripts, the rest like the CLF History, is a hand copy by someone else and not the original. There are none by Koon Pak or Chan Heung.
Chan Yiu Chi claims Jeung ah Yim got the name of Hung Sing from his father because of "HUNG KUEN" which is even funnier because there is NOT A SHRED of evidence to support the silly claim. There is nothing in Hung Kuen as far as i know that contains the two words "Hung Sing "洪勝" to substantiate this as any kind of truth.
Hung Sing Fut San lineage says that Jeung Hung Sing's parents were killed prior to him turning 12 years old, where, he was in the custody of Jeung Kwon his uncle. And our account states that the 洪勝 name came from Ching Cho.
When i first posted on the net that our original name was 洪勝 GM Doc Fai Wong went out and tried to claim that 洪勝 was a battle cry used by Choy Lee Fut fighters.
Early on joseph tried telling all of us here on the forum that the 洪勝 name definitely NOT IN USE at the time because it was too controversial and dangerous. NOW, joseph tries to tell us that the 洪勝 was INDEED used by Jeung Hung Sing but ONLY in the capacity of a NICK NAME given to him by his father.
in the past, Joseph is KNOWN to be an ACTIVE HATER of Hung Sing Kwoon. he took on a hardcore stance early on fighting me tooth and nail in regards to the Green Grass Monk calling him a fabrication, a myth if you will. Then...in a sudden and surprisingly change of pace, JOSEPH began agreeing, and claiming that the MONK CHING CHO was Choy Fook..Chan Heung's teacher.
Even before that, JOSEPH tried to argue the point of WHO USED THE HUNG SING NAME FIRST, Chan Heung or Jeung Hung Sing? BUT, his EPIC FAIL occurred when he didn't provide us with the proper characters of the HUNG SING name he was referring to.
洪勝 was used by Jeung Hung Sing and means Victory to the Hung Mun, and i got supporting evidence to back this up.
洪聖 = Great Sage
鴻勝 = Glorious Victory (but still has its connection to the Hung Mun and more specifically the Green Grass Monk)
As you can see, the two names may SOUND the same (Hung Sing) but the definition is extremely obvious that the two names are NOT the same neither in appearance or meaning.
Chan Yiu Chi's account of Jeung Hung Sing tries to place him in or around 1867 when the true fact is the Fut San Hung Sing Kwoon 佛山洪勝館 was officially opened in 1851.
Joseph, you talk about too much controversial stuff in Chan Yiu Chi's writings, does it mention that your branch says Jeung Hung Sing was jealous and wanted to be the inheritor of the Chan Family of CLF? Does it say why when Jeung Hung Sing took over the school of the master who went blind, jeung hung sing took down the chan family school name and replaced it with his own?
Last edited by hskwarrior; 09-09-2010 at 07:46 AM.
Hung Sing Boyz, we gottit on lock down
when he's around quick to ground and pound a clown
Bruh we thought you knew better
when it comes to head huntin, ain't no one can do it better
Registered User
Thanks for getting back to me Joseph. Your reflecting and offering, its an informative reaction indeed! Is your surname Wong?Hi soulfist,
I agree with you, what we say is a reflection of who we are and that applies to you as well as me, but one can also do this face to face, so when you visit Chen Yong-Fa, you can always see what he chose to answer and what he chose to avoid, when he smiles and when he frawns, to "read" him, so my direct approach would also include your hidden observations.
But when you speak to another person about Chen Yong-Fa, this person, no matter how clever you can be, reading in between the lines, will still be his own point of view on Chen Yong-Fa, not how Chen Yong-Fa sees himself in front of you, so in my view it is still better to take to direct approach, you have nothing to loose, unless you are afraid that Chen Yong-Fa can "read" you as much as you claimed that you can "read" him.
Now I chose to answer you this question and in this way, what does it say about me? Just keep in mind, whether you'd choose to answer me or how you'd answer me will tell us something about you!
Now I can see why you chose "soulfist".
XJ
No Im not afraid that Chen Yong Fa would be able to read me. One is that I have nothing to hide and the other is he never read nor showed reading skills in our encounters up to now. Are you saying he is the suspicious type? But Im not suspicious of him nor deny him anything, interesting you should read my initial question that way. A defensive emotional reaction when this particular person is mentioned... Well just to let you know I respect my sisuk very much!
Keeping it in mind as you said, what have what Ive answered and how I did it tell you about me?
And how do you interpret my name by the way?
周洪龍 金山鴻勝武舘 - 鴻勝佛家正宗
lmao.....is it?thanks for getting back to me joseph. Your reflecting and offering, its an informative reaction indeed! Is your surname wong?
Hung Sing Boyz, we gottit on lock down
when he's around quick to ground and pound a clown
Bruh we thought you knew better
when it comes to head huntin, ain't no one can do it better
Registered User
Joseph,
Thank you for your reply, I'm very happy to know that DFW manuscript are not "the one and only" and the "original"....I suppose it for a long time but in Italy we've a lot of misinformation about CLF.
When I had the fortune to speak about Shifu Wong Chi Yuen I started to have doubts about this.
Unfortunately DFW school and teacher in Italy are trying to make some confusion about CLF history.
Forums should serve to exchange views among people belonging to different lines and with different cultural heritage to find together the truth...I hope here we can start to make this!
SY
Registered User
Brother Frank...don't anger....we're a big family with some different point of view, but ever a big family we'll be!!!
SY
Registered User
Hi Drake,
As I mentioned before I studied mainly with my father and my Sisuks and they studied with Chen Yiu-Chi and others students of the time in Guangzhou. I have never met Chan Yiu-Chi but my father spoke highly of him being both accomplished in the martial and civil arts. As you can see I am proud of my CLF heritage, having done it for nearly all my life (I am 63 this year).
I am not a spokesperson for the Chan clan, I merely want to provide an alternative point of views to what I considered inaccurate informations about Chan Heaung and his descendants given out by people like Frank and his elders like Lun Tse. I feel if I don't do this then I am not being a respectful son. I know it is a waste of time but I have to do what I can.
I feel if I can provide an alternative point of view, then people will have a better chance of seeing the whole picture. You know there is not one CMA style that still has the first-born son carrying on the family's tradition for 5 generations uninterrupted, at least I can do is to speak out for them even if they don't want to do it themselves for the sake of keeping the peace in the CLF world.
XJ
周洪龍 金山鴻勝武舘 - 鴻勝佛家正宗
a respectful jesture indeed. ALTHOUGH, no one has been MORE inaccurate here than YOU my long time NEMIFRIENDOTHER!!!!!!!I am not a spokesperson for the Chan clan, I merely want to provide an alternative point of views to what I considered inaccurate informations about Chan Heaung and his descendants given out by people like Frank and his elders like Lun Tse. I feel if I don't do this then I am not being a respectful son. I know it is a waste of time but I have to do what I can.
But YOU not them, YOU are causing more damage by spreading so much MISINFORMATION about my lineage. it is YOU and people like YOU who say that because we don't practice anything that was passed down by Chan Heung that we are not CHOY LEE FUT.feel if I can provide an alternative point of view, then people will have a better chance of seeing the whole picture. You know there is not one CMA style that still has the first-born son carrying on the family's tradition for 5 generations uninterrupted, at least I can do is to speak out for them even if they don't want to do it themselves for the sake of keeping the peace in the CLF world.
XJ
Your alternative point of view in regards to the FUT SAN HUNG SING KWOON is obscured by the HUGE smudges of MISINFORMATION. NEED SOME WINDEX?
Last edited by hskwarrior; 09-09-2010 at 08:22 AM.
Hung Sing Boyz, we gottit on lock down
when he's around quick to ground and pound a clown
Bruh we thought you knew better
when it comes to head huntin, ain't no one can do it better
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