Ving Tsun Training Clip

[Graham H]

Looks like you are missing the whole point of doing the exercise, it is just a training exercise and not a sparring drill.

I disagree! Chi Sau is a pre sparring drill unless you are stupid and think it is about sensing energy and that clip is just a bit of light training btw.

This is the bit where you are meant to offer a better clip of how its meant to be done......on you go son!!!........I can't see it myself though as nobody posts chi sau clips of themselves. They just post themselves talking and showing drills which any t**t can do!!

GH

[YiQuanOne]

I disagree! Chi Sau is a pre sparring drill unless you are stupid and think it is about sensing energy and that clip is just a bit of light training btw.

This is the bit where you are meant to offer a better clip of how its meant to be done......on you go son!!!........I can't see it myself though as nobody posts chi sau clips of themselves. They just post themselves talking and showing drills which any t**t can do!!

GH

Ya, I'm going with the stupid one.

[trubblman]

I disagree! Chi Sau is a pre sparring drill unless you are stupid and think it is about sensing energy and that clip is just a bit of light training btw.

This is the bit where you are meant to offer a better clip of how its meant to be done......on you go son!!!........I can't see it myself though as nobody posts chi sau clips of themselves. They just post themselves talking and showing drills which any t**t can do!!

GH

Oh No not pre sparring! What about pre pre sparring?

[Graham H]

Oh No not pre sparring! What about pre pre sparring?

I take it you mean Gor Sau before sparring in which case yes.....pre pre sparring!

GH

[Graham H]

Ya, I'm going with the stupid one.

That's ok then we have nothing to discuss. I don't like your way of thinking. I moved away from that idea when I was found out it doesn't work fro me. If it does for you then all is good.

GH

[trubblman]

I take it you mean Gor Sau before sparring in which case yes.....pre pre sparring!

GH

I know it does not come across but that was sarcasm. I meant it as a way of saying chi sau can be both, a chi sensing exercise and a pre sparring exercise. But chi sau and gor sau ( I consider them both chi sau) are meant to be cooperative, not to for one person to exert dominance over the other, but to help the other to improve. Once you take it to a combat exercise where it simply becomes scoring a point by hitting then it becomes sparring.

To me it seems you get all bent out of shape at chi sau's being a chi sensing exercise which it is. People, esp Westerners, get all bent out of shape at the word chi, taking it to mean something mysterious. It does not. Chi can be likened to the word energy. Energy has many forms and its meaning changes depending on how it is used but in context it becomes clear. Same with chi. Even if a person stands there with an arm ( or leg ) extended there's still energy or in other words chi. Depending on the force and vector the arm moves in, that can be sensed by your opponent. A tensed person's energy, again in the context of moving a limb, can be sensed more easily than a pliant person's.

Again most people in this forum, and elsewhere, tend to be argumentative because they are getting in a blather by trying too hard to put chinese concepts in to our indo european language. That is just paying too much attention to the pointing finger.

[Graham H]

I know it does not come across but that was sarcasm.

I know that!! So was mine!

chi sensing exercise

There is no such thing in my lineage.

and a pre sparring exercise.

Everything in the system leads to sparring

But chi sau and gor sau ( I consider them both chi sau) are meant to be cooperative, not to for one person to exert dominance over the other, but to help the other to improve. Once you take it to a combat exercise where it simply becomes scoring a point by hitting then it becomes sparring.

Correct!

To me it seems you get all bent out of shape at chi sau's being a chi sensing exercise which it is.

In your opinion mate but not mine!!1

People, esp Westerners, get all bent out of shape at the word chi, taking it to mean something mysterious. It does not. Chi can be likened to the word energy. Energy has many forms and its meaning changes depending on how it is used but in context it becomes clear. Same with chi. Even if a person stands there with an arm ( or leg ) extended there's still energy or in other words chi. Depending on the force and vector the arm moves in, that can be sensed by your opponent. A tensed person's energy, again in the context of moving a limb, can be sensed more easily than a pliant person's.

Thats all BS (IMO)!! Ving Tsun teaches one to maintain striking even if obsticles have been put in the way. It's not about arm contact and manipualting arms. If there is any contact in fighting then it is too quick to sense any "energy". If the oppoents limbs touch yours at any time the skill in VT teaches you to recycle the punch and find another punching line. Because of our pivoting/footwork and the fact that we try and turn the opponent away from us means that 99% of the time the new punching line is through the line of the opposite elbow. This is the whole purpose of Chum Kiu in my lineage. It teaches you a certain strategy for fighting.

If this is not your thinking then why should it be a problem? I'm happy with WSLPB way and not any others that I have experienced. No problem in that is there??

What lineage are you from??? I may understand where you are coming from then

GH

[CFT]

To me it seems you get all bent out of shape at chi sau's being a chi sensing exercise which it is. People, esp Westerners, get all bent out of shape at the word chi, taking it to mean something mysterious.

It's not mysterious if you take 'chi' to mean sticking (黐), rather than breath/energy (氣).

[LoneTiger108]

It's not mysterious if you take 'chi' to mean sticking (黐), rather than breath/energy (氣).

Yep! Understanding the word can help

I have never heard of 'Hei Sau' but I have heard people term sticking hands and 'chi' hands which I think is a pretty awful mistake.

And FWIW 'Hei' or 'Chi' in Mandarin, definitely exists IMHHHHO

[FongSung]

Lonetiger, as you said b4 Wing Chun terminology traditionally is cantonese a lot of confusion can arise when mixing with mandarin, as some others do here, imho. This is a classic example thanks to CFT for pointing the obvious out. Also written chinese is not always the same in cantonese and mandarin from my experience.

You can still strike whilst sticking btw. Also once you have a bridge you should maintain it even when "moving to another line" one arm should be bridging even when "recylcing" the punch. I see PB doing this when he chain punch on the flank/blindside/outside, is it not? This force's the opponent to use the arm furthest away to counter, generally.

[LoneTiger108]

Lonetiger, as you said b4 Wing Chun terminology traditionally is cantonese a lot of confusion can arise when mixing with mandarin, as some others do here, imho.

Now THAT is the point I have ALWAYS been making...

[Graham H]

You can still strike whilst sticking btw.

Sticking to your opponents center? Yes.....sticking to their arms? No!!!!!!!

Also once you have a bridge you should maintain it even when "moving to another line" one arm should be bridging even when "recylcing" the punch.

Bridge meaning path to your opponent? Yes.....sticking to arm "bridges"...No!!!!

I see PB doing this when he chain punch on the flank/blindside/outside, is it not? This force's the opponent to use the arm furthest away to counter, generally.

Yes, we look to go to the outside of the oppoents attacking arm. We can turn them so that their reverse arm is out of the way from giving us too much danger. Also if we move to the outside it encourages the opponent to cross or turn himself in order to attack again. Its in the moment that we look to intercept and cut the oppoents movement off. "Cutting the way" is the most direct path to your opponent (chum kiu). Fighting square on facing is dangerous and will mean that the biggest strongest will always win. We use the opponents force against him but not from arm contact. These concepts can be easily misinterpreted as soon as we over indulge in arm contact chi sau where one tries to manipulate arms.

It would be a good idea for you to not read into what you see from Philipp. Being in front of him is a whole different ball game and more threatening than any other VT teacher I have met to date!!

GH

[couch]

Stick.

Sticky?

Sticky rice? Sticky syrup?

or the verb: to stick?

[Graham H]

Stick.

Sticky?

Sticky rice? Sticky syrup?

or the verb: to stick?

Mmmmmmm sticky rice with syrup!!! More effective than "sticky arms" me thinks!

GH

[trubblman]

. Fighting square on facing is dangerous and will mean that the biggest strongest will always win.

GH

Fighting square on is more dangerous. True and it's also more direct.
Biggest, strongest will always win. False or at least not demonstrably true. Because the biggest strongest will have an advantage ( and will biggest, strongest will have an advantage per se regardless of where he is facing) but that he will win always ( the key to the statement that makes it not demonstrably true) is a dubious proposition.