Looking for WSL vs fencer clip

[Dave McKinnon]

Shaw

Martial Arts, except in more recent time has been about fighting dissimilar styles.
Can A BJD user defeat a saber or other similar sword?

Dave

[shawchemical]

Shaw

Martial Arts, except in more recent time has been about fighting dissimilar styles.
Can A BJD user defeat a saber or other similar sword?

Dave

Pointless comparison.
The competition is not with the sword, but its user.

[bennyvt]

As far as I heard it was a high ranking HK police man that was a champion. Best to ask david peterson or WKmak could ask cliff as he was still with him. From what I was told every time he would strike wong would block with one and chop/slice with the other.
Most times in sword fighting you are blocking with your swords (not talking vt as I don't know the knives. Hence needing to sharpen out the nicks. When doing medievil or even kenjitsu we were taught to block with the sword. He wasn't attacking the swords, he was trying to hit WSL but he was moving and blocking it.WSL's knives were just a training crappy pair as it was on TV and it was classed as more of an exhibition. The guy got ****ed that he couldn't get WSL so started to madly hack at him.
And Robert maybe you and your guys couldn't beat a decent fencer or escrima but we aren't all like you. Unless you are just saying that to stir **** like you always do. How old are you man. Let me guess you read this stuff and type with one hand on the ah... keyboard.

[wkmark]

I can ask around in and try to get more information on this. But yes, I have heard of this before as well. It was on 歡樂今宵 and i believed that yes the BJD was not sharpened, but upon contact with the fencer more than a few times, it left the BJD serrated. One of the movement during the encounter Sifu WSL did a move that slice the fencer's arm causing it to bleed. I will ask Cliff or ask Sifu WSL's sons in regards to this event.

As for whether BJD can beat a decent fencer or Escrima, it should be based on the practitioner itself.

In WSL BJD, the forms are only part of the drill. There are also sparring usage of the BJD. Wooden BJD's are used to train for applications usage in sparring.

As far as I heard it was a high ranking HK police man that was a champion. Best to ask david peterson or WKmak could ask cliff as he was still with him. From what I was told every time he would strike wong would block with one and chop/slice with the other.
Most times in sword fighting you are blocking with your swords (not talking vt as I don't know the knives. Hence needing to sharpen out the nicks. When doing medievil or even kenjitsu we were taught to block with the sword. He wasn't attacking the swords, he was trying to hit WSL but he was moving and blocking it.WSL's knives were just a training crappy pair as it was on TV and it was classed as more of an exhibition. The guy got ****ed that he couldn't get WSL so started to madly hack at him.
And Robert maybe you and your guys couldn't beat a decent fencer or escrima but we aren't all like you. Unless you are just saying that to stir **** like you always do. How old are you man. Let me guess you read this stuff and type with one hand on the ah... keyboard.

[Eric_H]

I can ask around in and try to get more information on this. But yes, I have heard of this before as well. It was on 歡樂今宵 and i believed that yes the BJD was not sharpened, but upon contact with the fencer more than a few times, it left the BJD serrated. One of the movement during the encounter Sifu WSL did a move that slice the fencer's arm causing it to bleed. I will ask Cliff or ask Sifu WSL's sons in regards to this event.

Wkmark, appreciate you asking. I think it's something all WC people would want to see. WSL was a great representative of WC.

I've heard that he also studied the Fu Chen Sung style of bagua. Is this true?

[wkmark]

FYI, I will ask for the details of the event, but I probably won't be able to get any film footage since I am not sure if that film got kept.. got erased.. etc.

As for Fu Chen Sung style Bagua, I'd have to ask as well. Hahaha.

Wkmark, appreciate you asking. I think it's something all WC people would want to see. WSL was a great representative of WC.

I've heard that he also studied the Fu Chen Sung style of bagua. Is this true?

[LSWCTN1]

Wkmark, appreciate you asking. I think it's something all WC people would want to see. WSL was a great representative of WC.

I've heard that he also studied the Fu Chen Sung style of bagua. Is this true?

think that was Chu Shong Tin? but also Kwok Wan Ping AND Garrett Gee are other notable who have done the same i believe

[sanjuro_ronin]

Most times in sword fighting you are blocking with your swords (not talking vt as I don't know the knives. Hence needing to sharpen out the nicks. When doing medievil or even kenjitsu we were taught to block with the sword.

Granted sometimes you HAVE to block with the blade but is it NEVER a first or second option, it is a last resort and even then you tyr your best to make contact with the blunt of the blade and not the edge.
On a double edges sword you make contact AWAY from the cutting area and closer to the hilt.
Evade first, parry second.
Blade on blade = damaged blades and no practical swordsmanship advocated that.
Contact happens, that is a given, but it is not looked for or desired.

[Eric_H]

Granted sometimes you HAVE to block with the blade but is it NEVER a first or second option, it is a last resort and even then you tyr your best to make contact with the blunt of the blade and not the edge.
On a double edges sword you make contact AWAY from the cutting area and closer to the hilt.
Evade first, parry second.
Blade on blade = damaged blades and no practical swordsmanship advocated that.
Contact happens, that is a given, but it is not looked for or desired.

+1

A lot of the sword bridging I've learned in the Wudang (primarily Fu Style) broadsword is about engaging with the side and back of the blade. On the rare occassion we do use the cutting edge to intercept the idea is to hack into the side of their sword, not edge to edge.

One of the things I've really appreciated about learning weaponry outside of WC is that you also have to have a good sense of forward energy to maintain control on the blade bridge and knowing how far is "a bridge too far" and will get you cut. Both concepts play perfectly into the HTH of WC.

[chusauli]

My point is if the skills are passed down, the descendants should also be able to do it.

For example, Gu Yu Cheung, master of Bak Siu Lam and Iron Palm could kill a horse with one slap. How many of his descendants can do that?

Leung Shum of Eagle Claw stated he could crush a thick teacup with his Eagle Claw. How many of his descendants can do that?

I am very admired of WSL's skill having met him personally in 1987 in HK and again in SF in '91. He was my Si Bok, and I know first hand of his ability in empty hand WCK, when I played Chi Sao with him. Hawkins also looked up to WSL's abilities. And as Hawkins always admonished me, "The theory is fantastic, but can you do it?"

Of course, we have nut-riders and name bearers of WSL here. Some put WSL up on a pedestal and almost worship him...but if we know WSL's character, it is not to worship him, but to develop your own abilities. What is your gung fu? If you take this out of context and feel insulted, then you have your own insecurites, but those who met WSL, know his mind frame. Even the movie Ip Man, played by Donnie Yen, told his Northern Fist opponent, "Its not a problem of North or South, but your problem." Can you solve it?

Here we have a story of WSL beating a Sabre Fencer - what is the gentleman's skill with the sabre? Is he trained with the sabre? Most fencers do foil, then epee, then sabre... but truly fencers prefer epee, and certainly, sabre fencers don't hack, even out of frustration. What were the rules here? I heard this story from Lam Gor (Gary Lam), but it would be more interesting to know how he did it. Real fencing is incredible - they train and compete at high levels, something that forms players cannot match. The same goes for escrima and kali, and kendo. Think you can match them? Go and try...

BJD vs. Sabre, it can be done, at the right range, and moving off line...closing off options.

IMO, 6.5 point pole would have been better matched.

[sanjuro_ronin]

My point is if the skills are passed down, the descendants should also be able to do it.

Ah Robert, you just threw a bucket of cold water on most TMA.

[Xiao3 Meng4]

It's settled then.

Let the pony killing begin.

[chusauli]

Ah Robert, you just threw a bucket of cold water on most TMA.

Paul,

I love TMA and have been practicing over 41 years now.

But we have to get real. Many of the anecdotes are often overexaggerated. How many of Gu Yu Cheung's descendants can break brick number 16 of a 17 layer stack without spacers? How many can kill a sheep with one slap, let alone a charging horse?

Yip Man fighting 22 Japanese Black Belts in the recent movie is a joke - it never happened, yet how many believe it to be real?

WSL was great, and fought numerous street fights and tested out his art, but in an open tournament in Taiwan was carried out on a stretcher. Today's WCK people alleged learn Gaun Sao in Siu Nim Tao because of this. What - Yip Man didn't teach how to overcome a sidekick to the ribcage? How many people think that a Gaun Sao is going to stop a full power sidekick?

Cold water? We have to get real. Anyone should have the humbleness to accept and learn the truth.

There is a theory of Dunning Kruger (WCK people would do well to look this up, and my citation is from Wikipedia):

"for a given skill, incompetent people will:

1. tend to overestimate their own level of skill;
2. fail to recognize genuine skill in others;
3. fail to recognize the extremity of their inadequacy;
4. recognize and acknowledge their own previous lack of skill, if they can be trained to substantially improve.

Dunning has since drawn an analogy ("the anosognosia of everyday life")[10][1] to a condition in which a person who suffers a physical disability due to brain injury seems unaware of or denies the existence of the disability, even for dramatic impairments such as blindness or paralysis."

So sad.

[shawchemical]

Robert you are a wanker.
You try to build up your stature by running the reputation of others who are unable to defend themselves into the ground.
There is nothing more to say.

[Dave McKinnon]

Shaw

He isn't ruining anyone's reputation. He is calling for people to train hard and build their own martial legacy instead of holding on to what their Sifu's Sifu's Sifu did.

Dave