Qi? Or no?....

[jdhowland]

when you conspire with another, it means that you breath together...

if there were no mirror neurons, what would internal masters do for a living?

Exccccelent! This confirms my belief in the desirability of controlling the behavior of others by nuanced means in order to stimulate prestige and cash flow.

[jdhowland]

Xiao3 Meng4, thanks for the mirror neuron info. It explains the connection between perception and empathic response better than the old motor nerve model.

I read an interesting book about 10 years ago titled The Hand (don't recall the author but I believe he was a neuroanatomist of some sort). The book dealt with the amount of neural processing devoted to the hands and related it to emotions and symbolism.

I don't recall the particulars, but one of the studies mentioned had a control group viewing a video showing hand injuries with a not too surprising range of responses. Then a group of professional musicians watched the same film and some cried openly without knowing why.

[Xiao3 Meng4]

Hi jdhowland,

that sounds like an interesting study. Was this the book you read?

http://www.amazon.com/Hand-Brain-Neu.../dp/0127594418

[tiaji1983]

Hey all, I would appreciate it if you could drop some more links on scientific explanations that rebut Qi. Like the mirror nueron info... Its interesting to me, because I believe in Qi, and I want to learn the other side of the story, but since Im not a science major, I have no idea where to look or what to look for.

[jdhowland]

that sounds like an interesting study. Was this the book you read?

http://www.amazon.com/Hand-Brain-Neu.../dp/0127594418

Aye, that's it. Didn't know it was ever published in paperback.

[jdhowland]

Hey all, I would appreciate it if you could drop some more links on scientific explanations that rebut Qi. Like the mirror nueron info... Its interesting to me, because I believe in Qi, and I want to learn the other side of the story, but since Im not a science major, I have no idea where to look or what to look for.

Hey, go back and read some of these responses. No one is rebutting qi. It's a valid term, just not easy to define since it has so many meanings over thousands of years. In combinations it expresses a great number of experiences. We can't say these experiences aren't real, just that they are not well defined by such a generalized term.

A good place to start your research is to check some of the links on taai gihk yahn's signature line. Find some areas of research or some technical terms that interest you and look them up. You don't have to be a science major to understand most of it. The fact that you are honestly seeking knowledge is half the battle.

[tiaji1983]

Thank you jdhowland.

[Syn7]

what is your definition of chi???

[tiaji1983]

My definition of Qi is a universal energy that flows through all things. In martial arts we tap into the universal energy for combat. But the ways that you do it, can also be explained scientifically, in most cases. so maybe Qi is just a theory of the way things works.

[Syn7]

anyone else???

[jdhowland]

In terms of human qi:

How about fuel? The potential for work as opposed to jing. Oxygenation of the blood. Sugars. Calcium. Without these there is no yi or will to move. No intent=no qi.

[Scott R. Brown]

Back to the mirror neurons for a sec here:

It should be noted that mirror neurons do not act on their own. It is the mind that interprets stimuli and then sympathizes in a manner that stimulates the mirror neurons. All the mirror neurons are doing is responding to the mental interpretation of stimuli.

Qi is an imaginary construct used to describe the cause and effect relationship of unexplained phenomena before science allowed for a rational explanation!

[ShaolinDan]

Science can be extremely helpful as a tool, however, there are also times it can be very limiting.

Because of reliance purely on scientific method, psychology was degraded (in my opinion) from a study of the human psyche to a study of human behavior...not really the same thing.

I think we run the same danger with chi if we determine to use ONLY science to understand it.

Qigong, acupuncture, etc., provide scientifically measurable results, but they were not, and could not be, developed through scientific methods alone.

Just because we cannot measure imagination and intuition does not mean they are not very potent and real forces.
It seems much more efficient for one's practice to work with the concept of chi then dozens of physical and mental principles.

Maybe it's just cause I'm a bit of a poet, but I think metaphor is often as true as math.

[TaiChiBob]

Greetings..

Too often, the study of the 'thing' becomes the study of its components.. by studying a steering wheel, a seatbelt, and a retractable cupholder, i will not understand the automobile.. Qi, is.. Qi..

Be well..

[sanjuro_ronin]

The old timers used Chi to refer to many things, so it'd probably not best to pigeon hole it to mean just ONE thing.
We can debate what chi MAY mean in regards to combat, healing and what not, but no one here knows exactly what some guy 200 years ago meant.
Is chi:
Coordinated energy?
Mind, body and spirit in union?
Bioelectrical energy?
The breath of life ( Spirit)?
A term used to explain what there wasn't an explanation for?
Etc...

Right now science can measure and detect virtually ALL kinds of energy in the whole universe, it can be seen, measured and quantified.
What does science say about Chi?