Jon Funk

[nfboy]

So I am interested in doing kung fu here in Vancouver. Always been interested in mantis kung fu. So I have done some research on Jon funk, 7*mantis, watched a class and talked to him. I am wondering how someone can be a sifu in 7*mantis and not know all the forms of that style or be certified by a 7* sifu? I did not want to ask Mr.Funk these questions directly as I did not want to offend him, but the more I read about 7*mantis and about him I kinda think he is a fraud! His skill level in stick hands and push hands seems very average at best and his lack of forms I find very questionable.

[holymantis]

I have to disagree with you about his skill.
I have met Jon almost 20 years ago now and he was very very good with his skill level.
his forms are good also . love to know what you really want he can teach you how to fight also very well
regards Roy

[nfboy]

I didn't say his form's were no good or that he cant perform them well , but how can you call yourself a sifu if you don't know all the forms to the system. The only staff form he knows is 5th son staff which is a very basic kids set, he does not know the kwan dao, double handed sword, horse chopper, chain whip, double hammers. He only teaches one broad sword form and one straight sword form and one spear form. When I asked about the other weapon forms he said you don't need to learn them there not important , just a repetition of the same material found in the spear, staff, and sword forms he teaches. sounds like B.S to me. As for sparring it looked like bad kickboxing at best, no mantis applications used that I could see. Just to let you know I have 10 yrs of hung gar and thai boxing before moving to Vancouver so i know what to look for in a sifu.

[iron_silk]

I have no opinion on Sifu Funk. I have seen his students perform primarily fist forms and there are a certain level to them.

I think someone is a Sifu when they have been given permission to teach and students decide to follow them. Whether they have the full curriculum is up to debate if it is relevent or not. If you want to learn from him, i.e. he's got what you want to learn then he's your sifu, if he doesn't then he's not. Simple as that.

I know of a few kung fu club in Vancouver area. However if you are only interested in mantis kung fu then the only other mantis school I know is Tai Chi Mantis.

Here is the website: http://www3.telus.net/tkftc/index.html

[SanHeChuan]

It's common not to have all the forms of the system. Usually only the inheritors get all the forms.

certified? The only currency in Kung Fu is GOOD Kung Fu not fancy pieces of paper with pretty words on them, or the number of forms you have.

[EarthDragon]

nf boy

The only staff form he knows is 5th son staff which is a very basic kids set, he does not know the kwan dao, double handed sword, horse chopper, chain whip, double hammers. He only teaches one broad sword form and one straight sword form and one spear form.

Can I ask you a question? would you rather have a teacher than knew a couple weapons and knows them well or a teacher who knows many weapons and knows them so so. It is always better to be really good at a few theings than average at a lot.

I have have 21 years in mantis 14 and I dont know any weapons, but my fighting is superb, you gotta ask yourself whats more important.

I would say with as many weapons as you listed no one could spend enough time to be good at any of them.

[mooyingmantis]

From the tone of your initial post you seem more interested in attacking Mr. Funk than seeking information that would help you choose whether to be his student or not.
7* PM has nearly 100 forms with empty-hand and weapons sets. I doubt you will find a handful of people on the American continent that has them all.

[LaterthanNever]

There are I believe 117 total forms in 7 star mantis!! As someone mentioned the last 20 or so are reserved for the inheritor of the style. So unless Sifu Funk is passed on the torch..how could he know all of them? And by know..do you mean recite the name of the form or do the form? I think you are being too hard on the man. Here is a PARTIAL list:

MAJOR FORMS OF SEVEN STAR MANTIS
Underlined links to Chinese books Underlined links to English books Other links
Basics
Beng Bu Quan Burst or Smash Step Boxing VCD
Gong Li Quan Flowing Power Boxing
Shi Sz Lu Tan Tui 14 Road Spring Leg
Level One
Duo Gang Quan Evasive Boxing VCD
Hei Hu Jiao Cha Quan Black Tiger Intercepting Boxing
Shi Ba Sou Quan 18 Elders Form
Cha Chui Quan Thrust Punch Boxing
Er Lu Zhai Yao Quan Summary Boxing Road #2
Lei Bian Quan Crack the Whip Boxing VCD
Level Two
Da Fan Che Quan Big Wheel Boxing
Bai Yuan Chu Dong Quan White Gibbon Exits Cave
Fu Hu Gun Yang Gun Conquer Tiger And Sheep Staff
Bai Yuan Tou Tao Quan White Gibbon Steals The Peach Boxing
Ba Gua Dan Dao Eight Diagram Single Broadsword
Mei Hua Luo Quan Plum Blossom Falling Boxing
Mei Hua Shou Quan Plum Blossom Hand Boxing
Tao Hua Shan Dui Da Quan Peach Blossom Free Hand Partner Boxing
Tang Lang Bu Xuang Quan Mantis Stepping Whirling Boxing
Tang Lang Tou Tao Quan Mantis Steals the Peach Boxing
Rou Yun Zhang Quan Soft, Agile Palm Boxing
Jie Quan Segmented Boxing
Si Four Direction Rushing Boxing
Li Pi Quan Splitting Arm Boxing
Da Jia Shi Big Frame Form
Xiao Jia Shi Small Frame Form
Level Three
Yi Lu Mei Hua Tui Plum Blossom Leg Road #1
Er Lu Mei Hua Tui Plum Blossom Leg Road #2
Zhi Wu Jiang 5 Meridian Sword
Shuang Dao Dui Qiang Double Broadsword against Spear
Wu Lang Ba Gua Gwun 5th son Eight Diagram Staff
Xuan Fen Dan Gou Whirlwind Single Hook
Qing Ping Jian Green Duckweed Sword VCD
Level Four
Tang Lang Chui Praying Mantis Punch
Yi Lu Zhai Yao Quan Routine 1 of Summary Boxing
Dan Cha Hua Quan Single Thrust Flowers Boxing
Si Lu Beng Da Quan 10 Road Thrust Strike Boxing
Wu Hu Qiang Five Tigers Spear
Da Hu Tang Quan Big Tigers And Wild Geese Boxing
Level Five
Shuang Cha Hua Quan Double Thrust Flowers Boxing
Rou Yun Zhoug Quan Soft and Agile Claw Boxing
Liu He Shuang Do Six Harmony Double Broadsword
Tang Lang Zhu Tong Quan Mantis Comes Out Of The Cave
Wen Wu Ba Xian Jian Civil & Military Eight Fairy Sword
San Lu Zhai Yao Quan Routine 3 of Summary Boxing
Da Za Dui Da Big Thrust Partner Fighting
Xiao Hu Yan Small Tiger and Swallow Boxing
Mei Hua Quan Plum Blossom Fist Boxing
Tou Jie Hu Quan Tou Jie Fighting
Shang Shan Hu Quan Tiger Climbs the Mountain Boxing
Xia Shan Hu Quan Tiger Leaves the Mountain Boxing
Luo Yan Quan Ê Tall Geese Boxing
Ou Quan Gull Boxing
Chuan Yun Zhang Thrust Cloud Palm
Yi Lu Ba Zhoug Routine 1 of Ba Elbow
Er Lu Ba Zhoug Routine 2 of Ba Elbow
Xan Zhi Zhuan Lin Zhang Swallow Rushes The Forest Palm
Hu Wei San Jei Gwun Tiger Tail Three Section Staff Boxing
Mei Hua Zhang Plum Blossom Palm
Yin Yi Lu Bai Yuan Kui Routine 1 of White Gibbon Gazes at the Feast
Yang Yin Er Lu Bai Yuan Kui Routine 2 of White Gibbon Gazes at the Feast
Yan Qing Dan Dao Yan Qing Single Broadsword
Level Six
Suang Bi Sou Double Daggers
Chuan Zhi Dui Da Cluster Free Fighting
Gun Tang Shuang Dao Ground Rolling Double Broadsword
Mei Hua Qiang Plum Blossom Spear
Jiu Jie Liang Huan Bian Nine Section Whip
Qi Xing Xuang Chui Seven Star Double Hammer
Qi Xing Xuang Jian Seven Star Double Sword
Chun Qiu Da Quan Dao Long Hilt Scimitar
Fang Tian Hua Ji Fang Tian Hua Lance
San Jie Guen Dui Qiang 3 Section Staff vs.Spear
Dan Dao Dui Qiang Single Broadsword vs. Spear
Mei Hua San Jie Qun Plum Blossom Three Section Staff
San Yi Qiang Three Loyalty Spear
Shuang Bi Sou Dui Qiang Double Daggers vs. Spear
Kong Shou Dui Qiang Empty Hand vs. Spear
Shan Chai Jian Shan Chai Sword
Kong Shou Dui Dan Dao Empty Hand vs. Single Broadsword
Mei Hua Zhi Wu Dao Plum Blossom Meridian Broadsword
Liu He Gwun Six Harmony Staff
Lian Hua Shuang Jian Chain Of Rings Double Swords
Ba Gua Shuang Gou Eight Diagram Double Hooks
Zhang Ma Dao Horse Cutter Broadsword
Kong Shou Dui Shuang Bi Shou Empty Hand vs. Double Daggers
Shuang Gou Dui Qiang Double Hooks vs. Spear
Qi Men Gun Dui Qiang Qi Men Staff vs. Spear
Dan Dao Dui Dan Dao Single Broadsword vs. Single Broadsword
Kuan Dao Dui Kuan Dao Kwan Do vs. Kwan Do
Jian Dui Jian Sword vs. Sword

Shi Ba Lou Han Qi Gong Eighteen Buddha's Qi Gong

[EarthDragon]

laterthannever... holy crap thank for the "partial" list OMG!

I know 5 forms, I teach 5..... after that whats the point, even in the 5 forms the applications over lapp anything else is just collecting or for show.

If you know more than 10 IMO you dont know them well enough to apply.

[nfboy]

Ok, may be I am being hard on him, but the one time I talked to him he came off as very arrogant, rude and egotistical. Well that is a lot of forms on that list, way to many for one person to every know or have time to practice. Why so many? No you don't need a paper showing that you are a sifu but i would think you need some evidence?

[mooyingmantis]

115 forms!
In Liang Xuexiang's book "Boxing, Staff and Spear Fencing Manual" (Quan Gun Qiang Pu) written in 1842 the author mentions three core mantis forms.
Apparently some peeps in the Seven Star line have been busy in the last 150 plus years. Though in defense I believe CCKTCPM has also developed a remarkable number of forms.

[Tainan Mantis]

I have heard of Jon Funk and seen him in action. My students have trained at his school too.

Just to let you know I have 10 yrs of hung gar and thai boxing before moving to Vancouver so i know what to look for in a sifu.

But who are you?

[YouKnowWho]

You only need to learn 3 forms in the 7 star mantis system.

beginner - Beng Bu
intermediate - Ren Jeh
advance - Zai Yao

All other forms can only help you to grow "fat" and not grow "tall".

You only need to train

- staff
- single edge knife
- double edges sword
- spear

all other weapon training are nice to have but not necessary.

[EarthDragon]

nfboy

No you don't need a paper showing that you are a sifu but i would think you need some evidence?

evidence WOULD be that piece of paper. Having a certified teaching certificate signed by your shifu is proof that he gave you permission to teach and has confidence that you will teach correctly and have passed the requirements necessary.

the ole' "sheepskin" college diploma is the ony way to differentiate if a person graduated or just enrolled in school.

Would you go to a Dr that didnt earn his degree?

I had a student Erin Markel that learnned from me less than a year, quit and opened her own school in a different town. I never gave her permission nor was she anywhere near the rank, and she had a bunch of students and was making money teaching however it doesnt make her a shifu.

[YouKnowWho]

I had visted a 7 star mantis school in Shangdon, China. The teacher taught a lot of forms but not Beng Bu. I asked the teacher, that teacher said, "you just don't teach Beng Bu to anybody."

It's not how many forms that you have learned. It's whether or not that you have learned the right forms.