Eight Chopping Knives, dead or alive?

[Frost]

I know a few guys that carry them in the UK, that's why I asked.
So, you don't carry knives, but you train with them and not with practical everyday knives that you would use, but with the BFD's?

Is this correct?

I assume just for tradtion, yes?

over here carrying can get you jailed sucks but what can you do

[Frost]

Testing creates bad habits?
As opposed to NOT testing that does what?

lol this answer should be interesting

[sanjuro_ronin]

No dude. Again, read what I write

I'm just not into 'testing' things out that definitely create and nurture bad habits.

I highlight the word definitely as I do feel I have enough experience to see quite easily if an interactive drill, whether in a sparring or more set controlled environment, will create bad habits. And GOOD ones.

I'm afraid the clips I watched would not help the knife man increase his/her skill with the BJD, and that may work the same vice versa too. Point is, weaponry is very specialized and each has their strengths and weaknesses. Even within Wing Chun there are differences to size, shape and ultimately purpose.

Give us an example of how YOU train with the Wing Chun knives...

I was introduced to the double knives when doing moy yat WC under sunny tang.
I prefer the knife training I picked up in the FMA, the drills were more practical and so was the training.

I don't recall any bad habits I have picked up or seen anyone pick up from live drills and sparring with "knives".
Sticks sometimes, but not knives.

[chusauli]

If you have paid attention, and appreciate honesty, can you at least answer my questions? Call me curious George, but I'm also intrigued to know what you think I didn't say outright?

Basically, what you are not saying outright is (and of course, there is speculation into what is not being said):

1) Your BJD set and Austin Goh's are different
2) Lee Shing did not teach Austin Goh the BJD, and he learned it from Yip Chun
3) You don't know why Lee Shing did not teach the knives to Austin Goh..nor is it your business
4) You are also implying that some other source than Yip Man taught Yip Chun the knives (perhaps alluding to Lee Shing)
5) As, let's say, "dramatic", as Austin Goh's performances are, they are not indicative of the entire Lee Shing branch, and that we cannot judge you simply by Austin Goh's performances.
6) And we have not seen the Jun Mo or Yum Yeung WCK (hence, enough of Lee Shing branch) to make a fair assessment...

How's that, for what you did not say outright?

[chusauli]

I would also say here that many people throughout WCK may not use stabbing as much - he preference for a particular type of shape of the knives will indicate who's a slasher, vs. who is a stabber.

Stabbing often produces immediate death, more so than slashing.

[LoneTiger108]

I was introduced to the double knives when doing moy yat WC under sunny tang.
I prefer the knife training I picked up in the FMA, the drills were more practical and so was the training.

I don't recall any bad habits I have picked up or seen anyone pick up from live drills and sparring with "knives".
Sticks sometimes, but not knives.

Why were your drills in FMA more practical? What drills did you do with Sunny Tang? This interests me as I have much respect for the late Moy Yat and his work promoting WCK.

Basically, what you are not saying outright is (and of course, there is speculation into what is not being said):

1) Your BJD set and Austin Goh's are different
2) Lee Shing did not teach Austin Goh the BJD, and he learned it from Yip Chun
3) You don't know why Lee Shing did not teach the knives to Austin Goh..nor is it your business
4) You are also implying that some other source than Yip Man taught Yip Chun the knives (perhaps alluding to Lee Shing)
5) As, let's say, "dramatic", as Austin Goh's performances are, they are not indicative of the entire Lee Shing branch, and that we cannot judge you simply by Austin Goh's performances.
6) And we have not seen the Jun Mo or Yum Yeung WCK (hence, enough of Lee Shing branch) to make a fair assessment...

How's that, for what you did not say outright?

Interesting perception Robert Here's my view:

1) Not really. No. Similar postures. Different learning. Everyones an individual.
2) As I said. That's his own business. I presume if he printed it in a book it must be true.
3) If it is true, you are correct.
4) Ip Chuns SLT was learnt/refined by the Lee Shing Family, so yes, I believe his weaponry may also be influenced by us. He was very very close to lee Shing.
5) Correct. Just as you shouldn't judge anyones WCK without seeing/feeling it for yourself.
6) I would have to agree with that.

FWIW I spent an evening with some family last night (students of Austin Goh and Joe Lee) and this weaponry question came up. Basically the effectiveness of the knife against the pole was discussed as Lee Shing was known for his quality pole training. He was undefeated with his stick plays, so how could the knives beat the pole?

It was quite obvious that they had not seen the knives move like I demonstrated, and I'm quite out of practise. These guys are family, so if they have yet to see what I was doing then I can only presume that anyone outside the family may never get the chance to see it at all.

Seriously, I think you need to be looking at Uncles site as he has placed the entire list of Lee Shings students online recently. Although he himself has had much to do with the external promotions of LSWC there are many more who just aren't as public. He is aware of this too, and quite humble these days as he sees the whole family join together again. Have a look and you will see what I mean. Lee Shing taught everyone individually so they all hold/held something unique.

You should remember that when you're trying to 'label' a practitioner in the future to fit in with what you think we 'should' be or look like! Just a bit of advice.

http://www.austingoh.com/leeshing/

Would have made a better contribution to your book I think!

[sanjuro_ronin]

Why were your drills in FMA more practical? What drills did you do with Sunny Tang? This interests me as I have much respect for the late Moy Yat and his work promoting WCK.

The FMA actually involved fighting.
Most of the drills in WC were WC with knives, almost the very same drills.
Plus the knives use din FMA are more practical too, of course.
But it was far more than that.
Actually hitting things with knives and trying to cut through things to get the feel of how making an impact with something changes the flow of a combination.

[LoneTiger108]

The FMA actually involved fighting.
Most of the drills in WC were WC with knives, almost the very same drills.
Plus the knives use din FMA are more practical too, of course.
But it was far more than that.
Actually hitting things with knives and trying to cut through things to get the feel of how making an impact with something changes the flow of a combination.

Its interesting that you seem to imply that we (or you) didn't 'hit' anything with the BJD, or didn't spar/interact with other weaponry students? This experience in FMA has led you away from us!

I can see the point of the type of knife used in FMA compared to the traditional looking BJD being or feeling more practical but personally I don't feel that a smaller double edged knife would stop a pole crushing through you. A BJD will

But I guess, being practical, nobody will swing a pole at you in the street right?

[sanjuro_ronin]

Its interesting that you seem to imply that we (or you) didn't 'hit' anything with the BJD, or didn't spar/interact with other weaponry students? This experience in FMA has led you away from us!

I can see the point of the type of knife used in FMA compared to the traditional looking BJD being or feeling more practical but personally I don't feel that a smaller double edged knife would stop a pole crushing through you. A BJD will

But I guess, being practical, nobody will swing a pole at you in the street right?

I didn't imply ANYTHING, I stated my experience with BOTH systems, nothing more, nothing less.
Now, don't get me wrong, there are some FMA out there that are in a nice fantasy land about their knife work and stick work, thinking that a shot along the head with a stick will stop a person in their tracks or that they can sut and NOT get cut.
But if I was to compare, directly, the average FMA with the average WC practioner, in regards to edge and impact weapons, I would typiclaly, give it to the FMA guy.
Form what I have seen.

[LoneTiger108]

But if I was to compare, directly, the average FMA with the average WC practioner, in regards to edge and impact weapons, I would typiclaly, give it to the FMA guy.
Form what I have seen.

If I was to be honest and go by what I have seen (publically) I would probably agree with you.

But what I have actually seen in front of me? There would be a nice exchange

[LSWCTN1]

Why were your drills in FMA more practical? What drills did you do with Sunny Tang? This interests me as I have much respect for the late Moy Yat and his work promoting WCK.




Interesting perception Robert Here's my view:

1) Not really. No. Similar postures. Different learning. Everyones an individual.
2) As I said. That's his own business. I presume if he printed it in a book it must be true.
3) If it is true, you are correct.
4) Ip Chuns SLT was learnt/refined by the Lee Shing Family, so yes, I believe his weaponry may also be influenced by us. He was very very close to lee Shing.
5) Correct. Just as you shouldn't judge anyones WCK without seeing/feeling it for yourself.
6) I would have to agree with that.

FWIW I spent an evening with some family last night (students of Austin Goh and Joe Lee) and this weaponry question came up. Basically the effectiveness of the knife against the pole was discussed as Lee Shing was known for his quality pole training. He was undefeated with his stick plays, so how could the knives beat the pole?

It was quite obvious that they had not seen the knives move like I demonstrated, and I'm quite out of practise. These guys are family, so if they have yet to see what I was doing then I can only presume that anyone outside the family may never get the chance to see it at all.

Seriously, I think you need to be looking at Uncles site as he has placed the entire list of Lee Shings students online recently. Although he himself has had much to do with the external promotions of LSWC there are many more who just aren't as public. He is aware of this too, and quite humble these days as he sees the whole family join together again. Have a look and you will see what I mean. Lee Shing taught everyone individually so they all hold/held something unique.

You should remember that when you're trying to 'label' a practitioner in the future to fit in with what you think we 'should' be or look like! Just a bit of advice.

http://www.austingoh.com/leeshing/

Would have made a better contribution to your book I think!

no Joseph Man (or is that Man Nak Chow?)
No Eddie Yeoh?
No Nigel Fan?
No Joseph Cheng? (or is that Cheng Chun?)

man, sometimes...

[LoneTiger108]

no Joseph Man (or is that Man Nak Chow?)
No Eddie Yeoh?
No Nigel Fan?
No Joseph Cheng? (or is that Cheng Chun?)

man, sometimes...

Ah! AND you should know why this is... Only direct students and family of Lee Shing are named and Nigel and Eddie were Joseph Chengs students. (Cheng Chun)

Unfortunately, if you don't know their cantonese names you would draw the same conclusions but I guarantee you they're all there, even if the pinyin spelling is slightly off.

Joseph Man = Man Sik Jow (Man Sak Chow)

And for the researchers out there, this is (as far as I know) in Sihing to Sidai order reading from left to right. That's why my Sifu is only number 7 and he too has elders. Just a basic guideline to 'who started first' and may not reflect the skill level acheived by individuals (and some are also repeats I think)

Only Joseph Man, Joe Lee and Austin Goh are teaching publically at the moment and they all teach differently.

[Frost]

If I was to be honest and go by what I have seen (publically) I would probably agree with you.

But what I have actually seen in front of me? There would be a nice exchange

It amazes me that on virtually every board on this forum people seem to acknowledge teaching by and far sucks in TCMA but somehow they have managed to find the real deal...but of course there are no videos to show it in action as its all private and behing closed doors

[LoneTiger108]

It amazes me that on virtually every board on this forum people seem to acknowledge teaching by and far sucks in TCMA but somehow they have managed to find the real deal...but of course there are no videos to show it in action as its all private and behing closed doors

I find it surprising that people tend to think that everything is out there on Youtube! But Hey! That's just life

If you've been involved with your Sifu and his family, then you may understand the 'so-called' secrecy surrounding how people are taught and why it isn't just recorded and promoted for other peoples pleasure! Some people want to be known, and others do not seek the limelight.

It is only with the new generations that this attitude can change. Some of us have always been and always will be very open indeed

[Frost]

I find it surprising that people tend to think that everything is out there on Youtube! But Hey! That's just life

If you've been involved with your Sifu and his family, then you may understand the 'so-called' secrecy surrounding how people are taught and why it isn't just recorded and promoted for other peoples pleasure! Some people want to be known, and others do not seek the limelight.

It is only with the new generations that this attitude can change. Some of us have always been and always will be very open indeed

H*ll they manage to put all the cr*p out there, well what everyone on here considers cr*p, or a bad resresentation of the style, why cant they put the good stuff too?

Its good you and your guys are open, do you have clips we can see of you in action?