Eight Chopping Knives, dead or alive?

[sanjuro_ronin]

I find it surprising that people tend to think that everything is out there on Youtube! But Hey! That's just life

If you've been involved with your Sifu and his family, then you may understand the 'so-called' secrecy surrounding how people are taught and why it isn't just recorded and promoted for other peoples pleasure! Some people want to be known, and others do not seek the limelight.

It is only with the new generations that this attitude can change. Some of us have always been and always will be very open indeed

Actually, if you look on youtube you will find clips of great fighters, great boxers, great masters, you find excellent examples of every MA, from kyokushin to MT to kali to silat, you find excellent examples of knife work, stick work, grappling, striking, you find clips of the best soccer players, best footbal players, best swimmers, best runners, best bodybuilders, best olympians, etc, etc.
So what is wrong with youtube again?

[LoneTiger108]

H*ll they manage to put all the cr*p out there, well what everyone on here considers cr*p, or a bad resresentation of the style, why cant they put the good stuff too?

Its good you and your guys are open, do you have clips we can see of you in action?

I have only put one clip of myself 'training'. More of a test shoot for future things. BUT there are a few 'showreels' I have had the pleasure to be a part of and they're always criticized for being too flowery or NOT like the 'normal' Wing Chun Can't please everyone!

http://www.youtube.com/user/yumyeurng108#p/u

If you're on Facebook, my Sifu has recently put up clips of him teaching that he would NEVER have done ten years ago. You might want to check them out if you're interested?

http://www.facebook.com/home.php?#!/...?id=1058417759

Of course, you may have to join Facebnook and put in a friend request first

[Phil Redmond]

Do you carry your BJD's around with you ??

Yes, in my car I have two sets of hard plastic "Do" that I use for teaching and a Cocobolo hardwood pair that I can use for "other" purposes.
I keep my many steel pairs at home of course.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Yes, in my car I have two sets of hard plastic "Do" that I use for teaching and a Cocobolo hardwood pair that I can use for "other" purposes.
I keep my many steel pairs at home of course.

Freaking marines...

[Phil Redmond]

Freaking marines...

LOL, I just love knives. I even sleep with a Ka-Bar. There's a story to that one. My Marine Corps unit was called "Shadow Warriors" and our motto was Death in the Dark. I can talk about a real knife fight from experience.
I'm not ever sure how many BJD I have. I know that I have 440 steel, "blue" steel, Damascus steel, I'm not sure what steel my Cold Steel pair is made of. Sifu John Lee of http://www.itg8.com/ made some of mine. He even has lets you test the cutting/slicing capability of any knife or sword before you buy it. btw, whether you believe it or not I did have to slap a guy across the side of the face with the flat part of one of my knives when I lived in CT. There's a story to that one as well . . . .lol

[Phil Redmond]

Regarding the terms chopping, slicing, slashing and stabbing. Stabbing is hit and miss. You may hit a vital organ/artery and you might not. If you do it can be deadly. Slashing and slicing are the same thing IMO and they can cause trauma without too much accuracy. They both cause a long cut. I'm not sure what others are taught but in TWC the "Do" is a soft weapon requiring a dragging motion. A chop makes a smaller cut and it can cut through bone ligament and tissue. Slashing and chopping are both effective but a chop requires more force. A slash/slice cuts through the epidermal and subcutaneous layers of the skin and sinews with less force causing the muscle to protrude. I know this as a fact because it happened to me. I had to hold the muscle on my left forearm with my right hand until I was treated. A slash/slice to the body can cause disembowelment like with a Katana/Wakizashi, etc.

[k gledhill]

A lot of the BJD are 'self-inflicting' positions,strong double edged barriers, that if engaged result in cuts, we don't chase off the line for this reason, you come, you get cut...stay with what comes.
Bong becomes a raised razor edge for you to come down on as you deliver an overhand cut....etc...
Double barrier knives that allow one, depending on what side, to disembowel the opponent, while one ALWAYS protects the centerline, followed by large retreating steps, to gain 'safe' ground.....
the basic actions are chop the arm , cut the abdomen...each with body unity and facing/turning.
the basic VT 'stab' utilizes a simultaneous sharp twist of the blade to generate displacing force with the top or bottom of the blade as the tip stabs, iow a parry without leaving the line or making an opening if you chase ...your arm actually makes a 'tan' action but the arm doesnt spread off the centerline, same as bare hands. The 'hilt' of the blade is used aka the elbow....
same idea as the arm..it displaces without 'spreading' away from your centerline. It generates force from its 2 simultaneous actions ...stab, displace...in one forward action. Make that idea work either side/flank, and you have the basis of a good fighting idea. Avoid the center of an equally armed opponent , let them make the first move, stay with them and ...killl them, before they kill you.

sounds familar ? same barehand actions....

[LoneTiger108]

Great posts fellas!

Now please share some footage that shows us what you're talking about Preferably I want to see full speed, accuracy and power applied BUT obviously with the control of a saint as no killing is required today

[sanjuro_ronin]

Regarding the terms chopping, slicing, slashing and stabbing. Stabbing is hit and miss. You may hit a vital organ/artery and you might not. If you do it can be deadly. Slashing and slicing are the same thing IMO and they can cause trauma without too much accuracy. They both cause a long cut. I'm not sure what others are taught but in TWC the "Do" is a soft weapon requiring a dragging motion. A chop makes a smaller cut and it can cut through bone ligament and tissue. Slashing and chopping are both effective but a chop requires more force. A slash/slice cuts through the epidermal and subcutaneous layers of the skin and sinews with less force causing the muscle to protrude. I know this as a fact because it happened to me. I had to hold the muscle on my left forearm with my right hand until I was treated. A slash/slice to the body can cause disembowelment like with a Katana/Wakizashi, etc.

heavy blades lend themselves to certain actins better than others.
The butterfly knives tend to be "cleavers" rather than "knives" if you know what I mean.
Slicing is nasty, but it rarely is a fighter ender.
A solid stab is horrid, add to that a deep cit FROM that stab and you got some serious injury there.

[Phil Redmond]

Great posts fellas!

Now please share some footage that shows us what you're talking about Preferably I want to see full speed, accuracy and power applied BUT obviously with the control of a saint as no killing is required today

Here's two clips of a Sifu Dana Wong demonstration:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X6UvbLeYTZY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYJbHo7TW10
This is a demo with GM William Cheung and Guru Dan Inosanto.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7SbQZ...ext=1&index=12

[Phil Redmond]

heavy blades lend themselves to certain actins better than others.
The butterfly knives tend to be "cleavers" rather than "knives" if you know what I mean.
Slicing is nasty, but it rarely is a fighter ender.
A solid stab is horrid, add to that a deep cit FROM that stab and you got some serious injury there.

To a Cantonese speaker it's Do. Which means knife and is the same word for a cleaver. Semantics eh????
Now I'm no historian but I've been taught that since Monks used them they weren't trying to kill but to maim if they were attacked so you are correct regarding a slash/slice. Also, all Do aren't heavy. If I remember to do so. I'll lay my knives out on the floor and take a picture of them and post it. I'm proud of my collection.

[goju]

Actually, if you look on youtube you will find clips of great fighters, great boxers, great masters, you find excellent examples of every MA, from kyokushin to MT to kali to silat, you find excellent examples of knife work, stick work, grappling, striking, you find clips of the best soccer players, best footbal players, best swimmers, best runners, best bodybuilders, best olympians, etc, etc.
So what is wrong with youtube again?

Nothings wrong with it. It just must not be treated like the end all for martial arts as not everyone

A. Uses the video sharing site
B. Even knows what it is
C. Doesn't go on forums to hear the ever so important discussions of "your art sucks post a vid of balh blah blah"

D. Doesnt care either way

[LoneTiger108]

Here's two clips of a Sifu Dana Wong demonstration:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X6UvbLeYTZY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYJbHo7TW10
This is a demo with GM William Cheung and Guru Dan Inosanto.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7SbQZ...ext=1&index=12

Good clips, but definitely not great imho.

I was kinda hoping that someone might have a clip of themselves practising with the knives? What I'm getting at is this:

If the knives are to be seen as the pinnacle of Wing Chun learning, and an individual should have this knowledge before they start teaching, then why are there so very few of you on here that can 'show' anything???

And I'm asked to put up clips all the time!

My view? I think that the knives also 'show' a practitioners inefficiencies. It's obvious to even the most basic weaponry student of any other style too. The knives will ultimately show what you know about Wing Chun

[Phil Redmond]

Good clips, but definitely not great imho.

I was kinda hoping that someone might have a clip of themselves practising with the knives? What I'm getting at is this:

If the knives are to be seen as the pinnacle of Wing Chun learning, and an individual should have this knowledge before they start teaching, then why are there so very few of you on here that can 'show' anything???

And I'm asked to put up clips all the time!

My view? I think that the knives also 'show' a practitioners inefficiencies. It's obvious to even the most basic weaponry student of any other style too. The knives will ultimately show what you know about Wing Chun

If you scroll down to the bottom of this link:
http://www.wingchunkwoon.com/grading.asp#
you'll see that the "Do" are a requirement for Master Level.
I don't mind showing what I know of the blades. In fact they are my favorite weapon and I think I'm pretty competent with them.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Knives and knife work do NOT translate directly translate to empty hands, not effectively anyways, but empty hands do translate well enough to knives.