Bagua vs. Muay Thai FIGHT VIDEO

[Dragonzbane76]

1) The obvious size difference.
2) That he hasn’t trained in wrestling.
3) Wasn’t in condition for the fight.
4) Hasn’t competitively fought for 15 years because he has been teaching.
5) Mentions training for real life combat is “Something else altogether.”
6) Keeps on mentioning he hasn’t been in the ring for a long time.
7) (In reference to Nakmeezy telling people he “beat [Maoshan’s] ass’’) Asks “when did you whip my ass?”
8) (When the video comes to the part where Nak is sitting on Maoshan’s back and punching him in the head) He says, “Wow … wow… you beat a dude who hasn’t been trained!"

just excuses, the thing he should be looking at is, did I learn anything from that loss?

[taai gihk yahn]

1) The obvious size difference.

his fault - he knew the size difference before the fight

2) That he hasn’t trained in wrestling.

his fault - he knew the rule set included grappling before going in

3) Wasn’t in condition for the fight.

his fault - he didn't train enough

4) Hasn’t competitively fought for 15 years because he has been teaching.

his fault - don't get back into the ring if you are not actively training for it

5) Mentions training for real life combat is “Something else altogether.”

his fault - don't get in the ring if you are training for "something else altogether"

just an aside here - this is such a LAME position - sorry, full-contact ring fighting and fighting in "t3h str33t" are NOT "something else altogether" - they are variations on the same theme, which is called FIGHTING; and if you are such a hot sh1t street fighter training in a FORMAL martial art, then at the very least if you step into the ring w someone who trains primarilly for that venue, then you should at least demonstrate some knowledge of footwork, evasion, defending against leg kicks, leg grabs, leg sweeps and knees, since all of those do happen in the street! none of that was the case here - Maoshan looked and behaved like a rank amateur with no game plan and no ability to defend himself - and keep in mind that HE GAVE UP - if he is so street, where is that street-fighter attitude? the guys I know who used to thrive on street fighting, they only stopped when they were no longer physically able to keep going, not because they decided not to...

6) Keeps on mentioning he hasn’t been in the ring for a long time.

his fault - don't get back in if it's been too long

7) (In reference to Nakmeezy telling people he “beat [Maoshan’s] ass’’) Asks “when did you whip my ass?”

I think a shorter answer would be when DIDN'T he whip his asz

8) (When the video comes to the part where Nak is sitting on Maoshan’s back and punching him in the head) He says, “Wow … wow… you beat a dude who hasn’t been trained!"

his fault - don't get in the ring if you are not trained

I honestly could not watch the other five minutes of the video.

it is excruciatingly painful to watch a grown man try to rationalize away the simple fact that he got owned on every level - which would be fine, and there would be no loss of respect, except for the fact that the world had to suffer his trash talk on youtube before hand ad infinitum, ad absurdum, ad nauseum - so now it's payback time, lol...

[YouKnowWho]

that's part of where the trouble begins thinking one is a "stylist" guy fighting didn't begin with bagua

I'll be the last person on this planet who care about the word "style".

I just tried to ask questions and let others to draw conclusion. IMO, if you don't know your strength, and you also can't detect your opponent's weakness, the fight should never started in the 1st place. From that clip, that MT guy seems to know a great deal of the throwing and ground work as well.

One of my favor jokes is if you can walk in circle around your opponent faster than the lighting speed, after so many circles, your opponent may turn into a new born baby. I got that idea from the 1st SUPERMAN movie. Not a bad strategy IMO.

So seriously, what's the strength of a Bagua guy?

You cannot do what you aren't trained to do. This way of thinking will get you into trouble. Unless you are very well rounded you have no choice but to fight to your strengths.

The Bagua guy had no strengths in regards to this fight. His only option would be to try and strike, and in that as well he was severely outclassed.

Agree!

The Bagua guy should concentrate on his throwing skill more. I believe that should be his strength and also the weakness for "most" MT guys. Unfortunately that MT guy has good throwing skill and ground skill too.

[bawang]

maoshan really believed in what his teacher taught him and with his faith tried to use it. its sad how kung fu ppl on internet all make fun of him and say he doesnt know kung fu. obviously this guy is very skilled kung fu guy and is better than most of people here. i think he knows more about kung fu than me.
people cant accept the fact that kung fu is dog sh1t, and a high skilled kung fu guy is still dog sh1t.
i can identify with him because it also happened to me. i only hope he can overcome pride and "face" and make changes before he gets old and useless. hes already in his 40s or 50s he doesnt have much time left to reflect on his life.
what ben hill is doing defines chinese martial arts

[Syn7]

maoshan really believed in what his teacher taught him and with his faith tried to use it. its sad how kung fu ppl on internet all make fun of him and say he doesnt know kung fu. obviously this guy is very skilled kung fu guy and is better than most of people here. i think he knows more about kung fu than me.
people cant accept the fact that kung fu is dog sh1t, and a high skilled kung fu guy is still dog sh1t.
i can identify with him because it also happened to me. i only hope he can overcome pride and "face" and make changes before he gets old and useless. hes already in his 40s or 50s he doesnt have much time left to reflect on his life.
what ben hill is doing defines chinese martial arts

yeah i wouldnt go as far as saying useless... even if you cant fight at all but train your forms hard and do alot of drilling, you'll still get healthy and the longevity aspects still apply...

if you want to be a fighter you must do drills that make you hard build on your bone density... iron body works... i think alot of tcma would do well after an adjustment period if they were to spar with as many other styles as possible... if they were totake it into the cage against cage fighters i think they could adapt evntually and not only build on their style but also find creative ways to use their tcma principles and stay true to their fundamentals...

as for the street, same thing, just no rules, so all techniques are allowed... in No Gi for mma we do more than whats allowed in the cage... its not all sport, we also train pressure points, small joint manipulation, breaks, illegal strikes to illegal targets like the spine, back of the neck, etc etc...

alot of tcma has what it needs to be effective, its the people who are applying it that are the fukc-ups, the weak link in the chain so to speak... its not that tcma doesnt work, its that most tcma cats dont know how to work it becvause they never use it for real... you get a guy who has never fought for real and teaches his style to somebody who in turn teaches it and so on... you look at these 3rd and 4th generations and they are so far removed from reality that its laughable to anyone who actually fights...

like bawang said, they need a reality check and if they take heed theres no reason why they cant change for the better...

personally, im working on developing my short power, i feel i can use this in combination with my grappling really well, from top, botton, clinch... i want to be able to deliver a devastating blow to the noodle from my back to a cat thats in my guard... or GnP, rain on em, short and fast, no recovery time because these arent haymakers... and in the clinch, i think bak mei will be of great use, and not in the chunner kind of way, i mean a ferocious actualy do damage kind of way... combine this with muaythai on the outside and the ground game... i think tcma is very helpful and i dont believe the bad rap tcma is getting, i dont think its the systems(well, some are garbage, but theres alot of good systems), i think its the people who dont apply the systems properly, with an open mind, well rounded... as long as pussies practice tcma and claim its too deadly to even spar without wearing a full body padded suit, alot of tcma's are gonna produce more pussies...

its ego then ignorance... faith is ignorance, by defenition... try and test everything asmuch as you can if you want to be able to fight for real... otherwise the only people you'll be able to win against will be drunk bar thugs and crackheads... but when a real fighter steps up, youre done... reality check...

[cerebus]

people cant accept the fact that kung fu is dog sh1t, and a high skilled kung fu guy is still dog sh1t.

No, actually it's just your understanding of kung fu (which is really a complete LACK of understanding) which is "dog sh1t".

Maoshan's understanding and skill in certain areas of kung fu may be quite decent, but the problem is that he has concentrated solely on those areas and is missing some of the KEY elements which are necessary to actually USE one's kung fu in a fight. Those key elements are conditioning and full-contact sparring. Without those, one should never step into a fighting ring.

[Xiao3 Meng4]

kung fu may be quite decent, but the problem is that he has concentrated solely on those areas and is missing some of the KEY elements which are necessary to actually USE one's kung fu in a fight.

This. A thousand times this.

Chang Quan, Chi Sao, Qin Na, Shuai Jiao, Tui Shou... it's all explicitly there, much of it associated with specific styles... the only one not classically represented is Ground submissions.

Almost seems deliberate, too (the isolation of skill into style.)

Luckily, Kung Fu is no humpty dumpty. We can put it back together again if we know where to find the pieces and what kind of glue to use.

I'm working on it - hope you all are too.

[Violent Designs]

This. A thousand times this.

Chang Quan, Chi Sao, Qin Na, Shuai Jiao, Tui Shou... it's all explicitly there, much of it associated with specific styles... the only one not classically represented is Ground submissions.

Almost seems deliberate, too (the isolation of skill into style.)

Luckily, Kung Fu is no humpty dumpty. We can put it back together again if we know where to find the pieces and what kind of glue to use.

I'm working on it - hope you all are too.

F*ck yes I am working on it!!! I plan on building a website in the future looking at my studies into Chinese martial arts and Muay Thai and trying to give my honest opinion on the state of CMA, combat sports, other martial arts and the entire spectrum of related subjects, and how they inter-relate with each other.

[Frost]

yeah i wouldnt go as far as saying useless... even if you cant fight at all but train your forms hard and do alot of drilling, you'll still get healthy and the longevity aspects still apply...

if you want to be a fighter you must do drills that make you hard build on your bone density... iron body works... i think alot of tcma would do well after an adjustment period if they were to spar with as many other styles as possible... if they were totake it into the cage against cage fighters i think they could adapt evntually and not only build on their style but also find creative ways to use their tcma principles and stay true to their fundamentals...

as for the street, same thing, just no rules, so all techniques are allowed... in No Gi for mma we do more than whats allowed in the cage... its not all sport, we also train pressure points, small joint manipulation, breaks, illegal strikes to illegal targets like the spine, back of the neck, etc etc...

alot of tcma has what it needs to be effective, its the people who are applying it that are the fukc-ups, the weak link in the chain so to speak... its not that tcma doesnt work, its that most tcma cats dont know how to work it becvause they never use it for real... you get a guy who has never fought for real and teaches his style to somebody who in turn teaches it and so on... you look at these 3rd and 4th generations and they are so far removed from reality that its laughable to anyone who actually fights...

like bawang said, they need a reality check and if they take heed theres no reason why they cant change for the better...

personally, im working on developing my short power, i feel i can use this in combination with my grappling really well, from top, botton, clinch... i want to be able to deliver a devastating blow to the noodle from my back to a cat thats in my guard... or GnP, rain on em, short and fast, no recovery time because these arent haymakers... and in the clinch, i think bak mei will be of great use, and not in the chunner kind of way, i mean a ferocious actualy do damage kind of way... combine this with muaythai on the outside and the ground game... i think tcma is very helpful and i dont believe the bad rap tcma is getting, i dont think its the systems(well, some are garbage, but theres alot of good systems), i think its the people who dont apply the systems properly, with an open mind, well rounded... as long as pussies practice tcma and claim its too deadly to even spar without wearing a full body padded suit, alot of tcma's are gonna produce more pussies...

its ego then ignorance... faith is ignorance, by defenition... try and test everything asmuch as you can if you want to be able to fight for real... otherwise the only people you'll be able to win against will be drunk bar thugs and crackheads... but when a real fighter steps up, youre done... reality check...

short power can work on the ground but for me its normally done on top not underneath, on the bottom you cant generate the power as you do standing, it comes down to just arm power, on top in the guard it can be used, but i prefer the yung ying way of producing power used with its the hammer fist from various angles, it all works well in the clinch as long as you have a clinch game to start with lol

[Jorge]

short power can work on the ground but for me its normally done on top not underneath, on the bottom you cant generate the power as you do standing, it comes down to just arm power, on top in the guard it can be used, but i prefer the yung ying way of producing power used with its the hammer fist from various angles, it all works well in the clinch as long as you have a clinch game to start with lol

Bro, does lung ying have tarn ging (springy power/energy)? Where do you normally aim your soy kuils at?

Thanks in advance.

[bawang]

No, actually it's just your understanding of kung fu (which is really a complete LACK of understanding) which is "dog sh1t".

Maoshan's understanding and skill in certain areas of kung fu may be quite decent, but the problem is that he has concentrated solely on those areas and is missing some of the KEY elements which are necessary to actually USE one's kung fu in a fight. Those key elements are conditioning and full-contact sparring. Without those, one should never step into a fighting ring.

noe ur mom has complete understanding. ben hill did conditioning he was
hitting trees and doing fingertip pushups and tings. he did better than u

u can see what went wrong wit maoshan if u look as his teaching video. its all make a bridge this make a bridge that qinna finger grapple. its the inherent dog sh1t content and nature of his kung fu that made him lose. his style is sh1t, his old chinese teacher is sh1t, so he is sh1t. no matter how hard u condition and spar u try that bridging nonsense u get knocked the fuk out boom boom its over.

kung fu doesnt produce fighters anymore it produces rice bowls and money trees. its not a way of life its a business oprtunity for cultural robbers.

u teach real kung fu then in 1 year ur student finishes learning eveything and leaves you, you cant make easy monies

[David Jamieson]

If you are going to fight fire, you have to learn what fire is and how to create it and then how to use it. If you spend your time learning about water, you will not have understanding of fire.

There was that cryptic enough? lol

Point being is that while maoshan may have been training bagua, what he wasn't training was how to fight with it.

He missed out on some fundamental things about training to fight and it had nothing to do with practicing his art. He lacked partenr work with someone who was gonna launch all those types of attacks and use the atypical strategies of someone who fights regularly.

kung fu practitioner never equals seasoned fighter. It's just practice. If you wanna be a fighter, then you got to fight.

[Syn7]

noe ur mom has complete understanding. ben hill did conditioning he was
hitting trees and doing fingertip pushups and tings. he did better than u

u can see what went wrong wit maoshan if u look as his teaching video. its all make a bridge this make a bridge that qinna finger grapple. its the inherent dog sh1t content and nature of his kung fu that made him lose. his style is sh1t, his old chinese teacher is sh1t, so he is sh1t. no matter how hard u condition and spar u try that bridging nonsense u get knocked the fuk out boom boom its over.

kung fu doesnt produce fighters anymore it produces rice bowls and money trees. its not a way of life its a business oprtunity for cultural robbers.

u teach real kung fu then in 1 year ur student finishes learning eveything and leaves you, you cant make easy monies

my sifu(wu wai kwan aka wilkie wu, the real one. not the SF fraud) doesnt get paid for teaching... atleast not much... his money comes from his day job... thats real... he does it for the love of the art...

[Violent Designs]

my sifu(wu wai kwan aka wilkie wu, the real one. not the SF fraud) doesnt get paid for teaching... atleast not much... his money comes from his day job... thats real... he does it for the love of the art...

Funny, my Sifu doesn't take take money either... just wants his students to be dedicated as hell or else he's kicking you out!!!

[Syn7]

we pay... just not much, it pretty much covers costs of running the school... its my understanding that the fee goes to the oldskool hk style athletic association... rent, heat, power, etc...

my sifu certainly didnt buy his house and two nice benz from a 60 dollar fee from a handful of students, half of whom dont even pay... i was broke when i started, i payed the first month then sifu spotted me till i could pay... gave me gear and stuff too, takes us out to lunch on sundays and days we do demos... and ofcourse we always get the lucky money envelope all the time... and uncle eddie even gives us yang taiji or free before and after classes, aswell as showing us random stuff we wouldnt have learned in class... gotta love the ancients in the back...

does these means we's have's the reals gong fu, bawang???