SPM sparring wing chun

[sanjuro_ronin]

Fair enough, but there are plenty of people that present them nevertheless.

Because they spend MOST of their time training it like that.
What can one expect?

[TenTigers]

agree with Goju, Yummy, and Sanjuro-but let's not judge entire systems based on crap demonstrated by inferior practitioners.
I think that is the whole problem.
I think if people opened their minds and eyes a bit, they would seek out the people that are more qualified, rather than the ones who post the most vids on youtube.
Sure, I understand that if you can see a vid, it offers validation. That works. No argument here.
BUT-it does not automatically mean that if you didn't see it on a video on youtube, then it doesn't exist.
that, is just plain stupid.
After awhile, you realise that you simply cannot have an intelligent conversation with these people. It's a waste of time and energy.

[sanjuro_ronin]

agree with Goju, Yummy, and Sanjuro-but let's not judge entire systems based on crap demonstrated by inferior practitioners.
I think that is the whole problem.
I think if people opened their minds and eyes a bit, they would seek out the people that are more qualified, rather than the ones who post the most vids on youtube.
Sure, I understand that if you can see a vid, it offers validation. That works. No argument here.
BUT-it does not automatically mean that if you didn't see it on a video on youtube, then it doesn't exist.
that, is just plain stupid.
After awhile, you realise that you simply cannot have an intelligent conversation with these people. It's a waste of time and energy.

Outside of Paul Whitrods stuff ( advertising for his school and merchandise) and some clips of forms training, we don't really have much on SPM and that is too bad though.
But I know what people WANT to see, I just think that they will never see it because, well, it doesn't exist and what people want is a SHaw Brothers fight, Kung fu LOOKING like a Shaw brothers movie in a real fight.
It just doesn't work that way and never has.
Ever see those full contact clips of the Bak Mei guy with the tattoos, I forget his name...
They look like "kick boxing" and guess what, so will SPM in a full contact context.

[TenTigers]

I hear ya.
I never liked the choreography of those films. I never thought they were actually what Kung-Fu should look like. I especially can't stand the footwork hopping moments within the fights-very typical of Gordon Liu's scenes, or the snakey hand strikes. Frankly, I could never understand how so many people bought into any of that stuff.

It's entertainment, but that's it.

[sanjuro_ronin]

i hear ya.
I never liked the choreography of those films. I never thought they were actually what kung-fu should look like. I especially can't stand the footwork hopping moments within the fights-very typical of gordon liu's scenes, or the snakey hand strikes. Frankly, i could never understand how so many people bought into any of that stuff.

It's entertainment, but that's it.

blasphemy !!!!!

[Jorge]

i hear ya.
I never liked the choreography of those films. I never thought they were actually what kung-fu should look like. I especially can't stand the footwork hopping moments within the fights-very typical of gordon liu's scenes, or the snakey hand strikes. Frankly, i could never understand how so many people bought into any of that stuff.

It's entertainment, but that's it.

nooooooooo!!!!!!!lolol

[MysteriousPower]

agree with Goju, Yummy, and Sanjuro-but let's not judge entire systems based on crap demonstrated by inferior practitioners.
I think that is the whole problem.
I think if people opened their minds and eyes a bit, they would seek out the people that are more qualified, rather than the ones who post the most vids on youtube.
Sure, I understand that if you can see a vid, it offers validation. That works. No argument here.
BUT-it does not automatically mean that if you didn't see it on a video on youtube, then it doesn't exist.
that, is just plain stupid.
After awhile, you realise that you simply cannot have an intelligent conversation with these people. It's a waste of time and energy.

Do you consider yourself a superior practitioner of spm? Because you sound like you want to come off as one or atleast as someone who has "seen" the goods. Every time a bad video is put up you defend it by saying that it does not reflect the whole of spm. Unfortunately no videos exist to show the goods so your argument on this point is...well it is pointless. If there were countless videos showing spm mantis people sparring then you could say this video was the rotten egg. Unfortunatkey there are only rotten eggs and until proven otherwise your argument has no legs...no matter how long you stand in horse stance.

[KC Elbows]

There's a bad tradition, pretty much, of showcasing martial arts by showing the move trained in stereotypical apps way, with set distance, etc.

Thus, lots of footage that does this.

What needs to happen is for people to simply refuse to make such videos or accept them anymore. App plus the move working in sparring is what we should consider the bare minimum demo vid to showcase what we do or judge what we see. We can't expect other kung fu people to do it for us, we need to start doing so, and support those who do, imo.

[sanjuro_ronin]

There's a bad tradition, pretty much, of showcasing martial arts by showing the move trained in stereotypical apps way, with set distance, etc.

Thus, lots of footage that does this.

What needs to happen is for people to simply refuse to make such videos or accept them anymore. App plus the move working in sparring is what we should consider the bare minimum demo vid to showcase what we do or judge what we see. We can't expect other kung fu people to do it for us, we need to start doing so, and support those who do, imo.

That is why I demo things on the bag or mitts.
You don't demo things sparring, all that shows is you fighting.

[KC Elbows]

That is why I demo things on the bag or mitts.
You don't demo things sparring, all that shows is you fighting.

I'm talking about filming enough sparring footage that you have a clip of the move occuring live, then using just the clip. If one can't get that clip, it seems like a bag or mitt version might come off as pure theory. Extra mile and all. I'll have to think about your point, though.

[sanjuro_ronin]

I'm talking about filming enough sparring footage that you have a clip of the move occuring live, then using just the clip. If one can't get that clip, it seems like a bag or mitt version might come off as pure theory. Extra mile and all. I'll have to think about your point, though.

Somethings you can show and SHOULD be showed sparring, namely fighting.
But if you are gonna demo a jing or something like that, something that you can't really see in a fast moving clip, then fighting clips are not the best ways to go.
Unless you can slo-mo them of course.

[TenTigers]

Do you consider yourself a superior practitioner of spm? Because you sound like you want to come off as one or atleast as someone who has "seen" the goods. Every time a bad video is put up you defend it by saying that it does not reflect the whole of spm. Unfortunately no videos exist to show the goods so your argument on this point is...well it is pointless. If there were countless videos showing spm mantis people sparring then you could say this video was the rotten egg. Unfortunatkey there are only rotten eggs and until proven otherwise your argument has no legs...no matter how long you stand in horse stance.

no, but I play one on TV...
I am cerainly not a superior practitioner of SPM, in fact, I have only been doing it for a few years, so I consider myself still a neophyte, however, I have seen, and felt "the goods," as you say, so I feel I can comment with good authority.
Your point about my point being pointless (are you following this?;-)is pointless.
There does not need to be other videos to justify my comment.
If you say Chocolate ice cream sucks, because you have only had a taste of Good Humor Chocolate Ice cream, and I tell you that there are other versions of chocolate that are far superior, just because YOU have not tasted them, does not negate my statement.
What it DOES show is your ignorance on the subject, lack of experience, and lack of exposure. The fact that you are so outspoken makes you arrogant as well as ignorant and closed-minded.
(sigh) why do I even bother...

[KC Elbows]

(sigh) why do I even bother...

Because without the drama, the interweb would evaporate?

[TenTigers]

when you argue with an idiot,
it just brings you down to his level
where he beats you with experience.

[Faruq]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qM0zbMCLiC4

Here goes a nice one. Its not Southern Mantis, its wing chun, but none the less the young gentleman sticks to his wing chun principles. He can only get better by having exchanges like this...Good for him!

This is an old clip, but this is the only clip I've ever seen where the Wing Chun guy actually uses anything resembling Wing Chun to spar:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RXg0F...eature=related

If anyone knows who the guy is, please feel free to say who he is and what his lineage is.