VT antigrappling

[Knifefighter]

Well, I have no idea from mount why you would want to go to low mount, grapevine, and wrap someone up to bite them when basically you are forfeiting the main advantages of that position which are leverage and gravity. Why not get to high mount and beat the crap out of someone as opposed to placing yourself down close where they could bite too, or sweep you.

I mean, with Vunak there are a few other basic problems, but that's the most glaring that comes to mind.

Did you watch his biting as a defense to the RNC? That seemed a little more realistic.

I'm always surprised when people fail to see the most glaring problem with his biting tactics.

In almost every position he showed, both people have an equal opportunity to bite. Doesn't do you much good to bite when your opponent is biting the cr@p out of you back.

"In th3 d3adly str33t (tm)" you can't position yourself so that the opponent has the opportunity to do his own biting.

[bennyvt]

Well I don't go for the "well if I hit the ground I have lost". No you have just been smahsed you fool. You really think some guy on the street is going to stop when you tap or say uncle. I go by the, learn how to fight where ever you are approach. Thats got to be the strangest thing in MA I have heard. I atleast get the guys that think they can stop it but just giving up if it goes to the ground is spastic. And yeh I think any one that has been on the ground with someone good will tell you its nearly impossible to get to hit those spots if they have you.I meet one of my fellow students that introduced me to VT when he was a bouncer at my local night club. He used to get into heaps of fights being the roughest club in town. One night he was fighting three guys and at one point he was punching one guy and another ran up and wrapped his arms around him as he turned. The guy bit him in the chest. Anthony stuck his finger all the way in his eye and told him he would pop it out if he didn't stop bitting. The dude let go and he punched the **** out of the dude. But he had to spend 6mths worried that he would catch something. But bitting isn't always the ultimate technique and with control they could choose the most painfull stuff to do to you.

[YungChun]

I'm waiting for the Power Biting and Blood Drinking DVD Series to come out.. Should be just in time for Christmas when Paul's sauce is well stocked....

[Dragonzbane76]

UM SIDE BOOB SHOT!

[t_niehoff]

I'm always surprised when people fail to see the most glaring problem with his biting tactics.

In almost every position he showed, both people have an equal opportunity to bite. Doesn't do you much good to bite when your opponent is biting the cr@p out of you back.

"In th3 d3adly str33t (tm)" you can't position yourself so that the opponent has the opportunity to do his own biting.

Hence why I wrote: If you have the skills to mount your opponent and maintain it (which only comes from loads of rolling with good people), why in the world would you want to bite your opponent -- and risk being bitten in return? Why not actually use the advantage the mount gives you?

The whole biting, eye poking, groin striking, throat attacking, etc. is an attempt to circumvent the need -- and the hard work it takes -- of developing real skill.

[m1k3]

To me the strategy for grappling for self defense is pretty easy.
1. Take them down.
2. Sit on their chest. (Mount)
3. Feed them their teeth.
4. If they roll over, RNC.

[Wayfaring]

I'm always surprised when people fail to see the most glaring problem with his biting tactics.

In almost every position he showed, both people have an equal opportunity to bite. Doesn't do you much good to bite when your opponent is biting the cr@p out of you back.

"In th3 d3adly str33t (tm)" you can't position yourself so that the opponent has the opportunity to do his own biting.

Yes that's true - from his RNC defense someone could bite back too. And actually in a street situation that's pretty likely if you start biting someone, they will respond with the same.

I think I've seen Roy Harris show some biting techniques for street self defense that work, but then again, he understands the delivery system.

[Dragonzbane76]

1. Take them down.
2. Sit on their chest. (Mount)
3. Feed them their teeth.
4. If they roll over, RNC.

simple and to the point. best kind of defense.

[Wayfaring]

No, that's training to fail. Those sorts of things only waste time, distract you from what you should really be doing (working for a high percentage escape), and give you a completely wrong focus.

Well from what I saw he seemed to be implementing in that section portions of a high percentage technique. He was peeling off the top arm, isolating it, then getting the proper grip on the choking arm, prior to biting.

The main problem is the opponent can bite too, and in more vital areas around the neck than the defender.

Of course the other problem is that if someone is looking to implement his biting defense, they are most likely going to be unaware and way too passive in movements leading up to the choke. The best way to defend that choke is in transition before it's applied. Start isolating an arm and escaping first.

[chusauli]

I think what happens is we may place ourselves in a box as labeled "WCK practitioner", when what we should be first and foremost is a martial artist.

Grappling is hard, but has its rewards. You may never be an Olympic Wrestler, or Mundial Champion, but you can pick up adequate skills if you crosstrain.

[bawang]

wing chun taech hiting the eye and gron. wing chun has no honor.

[chusauli]

wing chun taech hiting the eye and gron. wing chun has no honor.

Like a gun, WCK is neither good nor bad, nor is it honorable or without honor. It is the person using it who is responsible.

[Lee Chiang Po]

You guys are silly. You all talk like everyone you meet is going to be a MMA specialist. Even they get their a$$es kicked now and then. Even the champions. Unless you hang out at the door of MMA gyms or fight in a ring it ain't going to happen. In a bit over 20 years of working as bouncer and whatever, I have never ran up on someone so trained. I make no habit of looking for such people either. The average person would stand as juch chance on the ground with a good WC man as he would standing up. And it would not matter what style you fought against a top MMA fighter. He would still most likely whip your a$$. That probably applies to almost everyone on this forum. Picking on WC seems to be a favorite passtime for some of you losers. Same old same old, same old losers, same old arguements.

[t_niehoff]

You guys are silly. You all talk like everyone you meet is going to be a MMA specialist. Even they get their a$$es kicked now and then. Even the champions. Unless you hang out at the door of MMA gyms or fight in a ring it ain't going to happen. In a bit over 20 years of working as bouncer and whatever, I have never ran up on someone so trained. I make no habit of looking for such people either. The average person would stand as juch chance on the ground with a good WC man as he would standing up. And it would not matter what style you fought against a top MMA fighter. He would still most likely whip your a$$. That probably applies to almost everyone on this forum. Picking on WC seems to be a favorite passtime for some of you losers. Same old same old, same old losers, same old arguements.

WCK doesn't prepare you for the ground -- it doesn't provide the tools or the training (how much time have you spent on the ground?).

You don't need to be a "top MMA fighter" to have competent ground skills. And competent ground skills will enable you to beat almost any unskilled opponent on the ground (unless there is a huge disparity in strength/size). It takes only a few years of regular training to develop a competent ground game.

And a lot of "street fights" go very quickly to the ground:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FZA6Qm40KF8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YSCGh...1&feature=fvwp

[t_niehoff]

Well from what I saw he seemed to be implementing in that section portions of a high percentage technique. He was peeling off the top arm, isolating it, then getting the proper grip on the choking arm, prior to biting.

The main problem is the opponent can bite too, and in more vital areas around the neck than the defender.

Yes, that's one problem. Another is that decent grapplers will have ready answers (to continue his offense) to you peeling his arm -- this is something he will have encountered quite often.

Of course the other problem is that if someone is looking to implement his biting defense, they are most likely going to be unaware and way too passive in movements leading up to the choke. The best way to defend that choke is in transition before it's applied. Start isolating an arm and escaping first.

I think that it is best to focus on learning and developing good, solid, proven fundamentals.