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Thread: The Angry Rich

  1. #1
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    The Angry Rich

    The Angry Rich

    The Angry Rich
    By PAUL KRUGMAN
    Published: September 19, 2010

    Anger is sweeping America. True, this white-hot rage is a minority phenomenon, not something that characterizes most of our fellow citizens. But the angry minority is angry indeed, consisting of people who feel that things to which they are entitled are being taken away. And they’re out for revenge.

    No, I’m not talking about the Tea Partiers. I’m talking about the rich.

    These are terrible times for many people in this country. Poverty, especially acute poverty, has soared in the economic slump; millions of people have lost their homes. Young people can’t find jobs; laid-off 50-somethings fear that they’ll never work again.

    Yet if you want to find real political rage — the kind of rage that makes people compare President Obama to Hitler, or accuse him of treason — you won’t find it among these suffering Americans. You’ll find it instead among the very privileged, people who don’t have to worry about losing their jobs, their homes, or their health insurance, but who are outraged, outraged, at the thought of paying modestly higher taxes.

    The rage of the rich has been building ever since Mr. Obama took office. At first, however, it was largely confined to Wall Street. Thus when New York magazine published an article titled “The Wail Of the 1%,” it was talking about financial wheeler-dealers whose firms had been bailed out with taxpayer funds, but were furious at suggestions that the price of these bailouts should include temporary limits on bonuses. When the billionaire Stephen Schwarzman compared an Obama proposal to the Nazi invasion of Poland, the proposal in question would have closed a tax loophole that specifically benefits fund managers like him.

    Now, however, as decision time looms for the fate of the Bush tax cuts — will top tax rates go back to Clinton-era levels? — the rage of the rich has broadened, and also in some ways changed its character.

    For one thing, craziness has gone mainstream. It’s one thing when a billionaire rants at a dinner event. It’s another when Forbes magazine runs a cover story alleging that the president of the United States is deliberately trying to bring America down as part of his Kenyan, “anticolonialist” agenda, that “the U.S. is being ruled according to the dreams of a Luo tribesman of the 1950s.” When it comes to defending the interests of the rich, it seems, the normal rules of civilized (and rational) discourse no longer apply.

    At the same time, self-pity among the privileged has become acceptable, even fashionable.

    Tax-cut advocates used to pretend that they were mainly concerned about helping typical American families. Even tax breaks for the rich were justified in terms of trickle-down economics, the claim that lower taxes at the top would make the economy stronger for everyone.

    These days, however, tax-cutters are hardly even trying to make the trickle-down case. Yes, Republicans are pushing the line that raising taxes at the top would hurt small businesses, but their hearts don’t really seem in it. Instead, it has become common to hear vehement denials that people making $400,000 or $500,000 a year are rich. I mean, look at the expenses of people in that income class — the property taxes they have to pay on their expensive houses, the cost of sending their kids to elite private schools, and so on. Why, they can barely make ends meet.

    And among the undeniably rich, a belligerent sense of entitlement has taken hold: it’s their money, and they have the right to keep it. “Taxes are what we pay for civilized society,” said Oliver Wendell Holmes — but that was a long time ago.

    The spectacle of high-income Americans, the world’s luckiest people, wallowing in self-pity and self-righteousness would be funny, except for one thing: they may well get their way. Never mind the $700 billion price tag for extending the high-end tax breaks: virtually all Republicans and some Democrats are rushing to the aid of the oppressed affluent.

    You see, the rich are different from you and me: they have more influence. It’s partly a matter of campaign contributions, but it’s also a matter of social pressure, since politicians spend a lot of time hanging out with the wealthy. So when the rich face the prospect of paying an extra 3 or 4 percent of their income in taxes, politicians feel their pain — feel it much more acutely, it’s clear, than they feel the pain of families who are losing their jobs, their houses, and their hopes.

    And when the tax fight is over, one way or another, you can be sure that the people currently defending the incomes of the elite will go back to demanding cuts in Social Security and aid to the unemployed. America must make hard choices, they’ll say; we all have to be willing to make sacrifices.

    But when they say “we,” they mean “you.” Sacrifice is for the little people.
    - 三和拳

    "Civilize the mind but make savage the body" Mao Tse Tsung

    "You're certainly intelligent enough to know how to be a good person without the lead weights of religious dogma." Serpent

    "There is no evidence that the zombie progeny of an incestuous space ghost cares what people do." MasterKiller

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  2. #2
    good ol new york times...

  3. #3
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    Stop making things up.—1BlueBjj
    He most honors my style who learns under it to destroy the teacher. -- Walt Whitman

    Quote Originally Posted by David Jamieson View Post
    As a mod, I don't have to explain myself to you.

  4. #4
    The top 1% of wage earners already pay 39% of all income taxes.

    So a quick question for you San; How much is enough?

    Source:
    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB119786208643933077.html

  5. #5
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    hey bluebj how long til America collapses under the weight of it's own greed do you think?

    any predictions?
    Kung Fu is good for you.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by David Jamieson View Post
    hey bluebj how long til America collapses under the weight of it's own greed do you think?

    any predictions?
    If it collapses it will be because the consumers outnumber the producers.

    You keep soaking the rich and expecting utopia. The one thing you guys are completely ignorant of is that "The Rich" are the job producers.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by BJJ-Blue View Post
    If it collapses it will be because the consumers outnumber the producers.

    You keep soaking the rich and expecting utopia. The one thing you guys are completely ignorant of is that "The Rich" are the job producers.
    the one thing you seem to be ignorant of is that they ain't producing no jobs in america.

    what jobs? lol, you've seen the manufacturing sector literally disintegrate in your lifetime and the tech services industry is rapidly disappearing.

    apparently the "rich" want you all to be working at :

    a) looking after their stuff

    b) running around doing each others laundry

    I give you 10 years, maybe less. I'll be the guy sitting at the border making sure you guys aren't jumping our walls to get to el norte and steal our snow shoveling jobs.
    Kung Fu is good for you.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by David Jamieson View Post
    the one thing you seem to be ignorant of is that they ain't producing no jobs in america.
    They aren't producing jobs right now because of what Obama is doing to them. He is saddling them with more regulations, more costs (healthcare being #1), and soon more taxes. This may be news to you, but when that happens employers cut jobs and/or stop hiring.

    Do you have private sector experience by chance?

    Quote Originally Posted by David Jamieson View Post
    what jobs? lol, you've seen the manufacturing sector literally disintegrate in your lifetime and the tech services industry is rapidly disappearing.
    Agreed. And the jobs are moving to countries where there are much less taxes and regulations. You know, places where it's cheaper for them to do business in. Make it cheaper to do business here, and the jobs will return. It's not rocket science.

    Quote Originally Posted by David Jamieson View Post
    apparently the "rich" want you all to be working at :
    Let me let you in a little secret. The Rich want the middle class to prosper. Because when the middle class prospers, guess what they do? They buy goods and services from the rich!!! And when the middle class suffers, they stop buying goods and services from the rich.

    You should research Henry Ford and his thoughts on worker's pay.

    Quote Originally Posted by David Jamieson View Post
    I give you 10 years, maybe less. I'll be the guy sitting at the border making sure you guys aren't jumping our walls to get to el norte and steal our snow shoveling jobs.
    I hope you are wrong. I look at Indiana, for example. Their budget went from Red to Black once they got a GOP Governor. And New Jersey as well. They elected a VERY fiscally conservative Governor and he took them from facing a bailout to looking like they may indeed make it. And he did it primarily by cutting Gov't spending and unneeded Gov't union jobs.

    We are indeed in scary times. But come November 2nd, I truly believe the Road To Recovery will truly begin (assuming the GOP wins control of at least one chamber of Congress). If they do not, you may well be right.

    I do have one quick question for you though: If we indeed do collapse in 10 years and through that entire time we have a Democrat controlled Congress and only Democrat Presidents, will you still blame Bush and/or the Republicans for the collapse?

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by BJJ-Blue View Post
    *snip*

    I do have one quick question for you though: If we indeed do collapse in 10 years and through that entire time we have a Democrat controlled Congress and only Democrat Presidents, will you still blame Bush and/or the Republicans for the collapse?
    I'll let you in on a secret.

    I don't care about your countries politics and I don't care for them.

    I come to this off topic forum to troll te troll.

    so, take that for what it's worth.

    I'm a Canadian, I"m doing all right and I don't live from paycheque to paycheque.

    But I do understand the ramifications of policy setting in any country. It's almost always long term and in regards to the mess your country is in, that is pretty much 100% bush Administration blunders.

    Obama isn't the greatest economist, obviously, but hey, you got a better deal with him as far as optics went. At least the people of the world hate America just a little bit less and really, that's good for business.
    Kung Fu is good for you.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by David Jamieson View Post
    It's almost always long term and in regards to the mess your country is in, that is pretty much 100% bush Administration blunders.
    LMFAO! Way to cover your bases. I really wonder if at times you truly believe the drivel you spout.

    Quote Originally Posted by David Jamieson View Post
    Obama isn't the greatest economist, obviously, but hey, you got a better deal with him as far as optics went. At least the people of the world hate America just a little bit less and really, that's good for business.
    Yeah right. That nutjob leading Iran has actually railed at us more since Obama took over. And it looks like we haven't exactly made positive strides in our relationship with North Korea either.

    And if it's so good for "business" why is our unemployment actually going UP since Obama took over?

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by BJJ-Blue View Post

    And if it's so good for "business" why is our unemployment actually going UP since Obama took over?

    Because the GOP and right wingers insist on polarizing everything. They fight tooth and nail against anything American because....well, I don't know why your side of the coin hates him so, but the Right is NOT helping America at all. It is making things worse if anything with their constent resistance to any idea good or bad or otherwise.

    I think it most unfortunate that there is so much partisanship based on animosity towards democrats, social programs, social initiatives etc.

    It would seem the right wing is the most anti-american side of ideological thinking these days and there's no secret that many big business foks aren't democrats and support internal strife in an attempt to vilify the president and to make him look bad.

    I think most people with beyond a grade 8 level of education can see that, unfortunately, like canada, about 1/3 of the adult population are stupid as posts and will act irrationally and emotionally on issues as opposed to logically and rationally.

    you people need to find some middle ground. I don't think it hasn't been offered by the Obama admin, I think it has been outright rejected by the right wing.
    Kung Fu is good for you.

  12. #12
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    IRS data shows that a whopping 2,840 households earning at least $1 million in 2008 also filed for government unemployment payments that year.
    Boy, talk about a sense of entitlement...
    He most honors my style who learns under it to destroy the teacher. -- Walt Whitman

    Quote Originally Posted by David Jamieson View Post
    As a mod, I don't have to explain myself to you.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by MasterKiller View Post
    Boy, talk about a sense of entitlement...
    not to mention that in a country of 1/3 of a billion people, 2840 households can hardly be called "whopping".

    It's minuscule. But your point is valid.
    Kung Fu is good for you.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by David Jamieson View Post
    It would seem the right wing is the most anti-american side of ideological thinking these days and there's no secret that many big business foks aren't democrats and support internal strife in an attempt to vilify the president and to make him look bad.
    Wrong yet again. Actually big business gave more to Democrats in 2008.

    Quote Originally Posted by David Jamieson View Post
    I think most people with beyond a grade 8 level of education can see that,
    So when did you drop out, 5th Grade perhaps?

    Quote Originally Posted by David Jamieson View Post
    unfortunately, like canada, about 1/3 of the adult population are stupid as posts and will act irrationally and emotionally on issues as opposed to logically and rationally.
    Like the inner city people in places like Detroit who mindlessly vote (D) despite them destroying their cities for decades simply because they've been told for years that the other guys are all racists?

    Quote Originally Posted by David Jamieson View Post
    you people need to find some middle ground. I don't think it hasn't been offered by the Obama admin, I think it has been outright rejected by the right wing.
    Wow, you got one right! Seeing you believe that, wouldn't you agree if Obama had moved more the center the Republicans would have worked with him more?

    I mean if we get a ultra-right wing President, I'd fully expect most (if not all) of the Congressional Democrats to fight him tooth-and-nail. It's common sense.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by MasterKiller View Post
    Boy, talk about a sense of entitlement...
    Unemployment benefits are much different than welfare.

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