Fook Sau

[Sihing73]

Kevin,

The next time I am in NYC I will let you know. I would welcome the opportunity to explore some of the WSL methods. All in the spirit of learning and brotherhood.

[Sihing73]

Kevin,

I trained in Germany under Keith Kernsprecht and whenever any of the German guys visited the US it was an eye opening experience for those who only trained in the US. Those in Germany, while I was there anyhow, were far more dedicated to their training and worked much harder. Made all the difference in the world.

[t_niehoff]

The underlying idea is how to be able to continuously attack a person as our defense for 9 out of 10 seconds. %

And that "idea" is fundamentally unsound (a fantasy).

[k gledhill]

Terence doesn't understand , so it's fantasy

[Knifefighter]

I had my eyes opened too...btw we just had a student of philipp come over from europe and hand us our a r s e s for 6 months . sparring with vt is not like chi-sao but you need chi-sao to prepare to meet the combined forces of a vt attack.
You cant think while fighting as chi-sao lets you, iow we repeat 1000's of times the simple actions with structure, alignment required in the split second clash of 2 fighters meeting ...mistakes show as bad stances giving way, arms go chasing arms instead of hitting heads WHILE deflecting if you make defensive actions with no attacking actions too, you give the fight to the guy who's attacking always...relentlessly.

chi-sao allows the time to repeat, to perfect, to exchange force with a MUTUAL partner not fighting IN chi-sao or trying to emulate the drills as the fighting method....classic confusion.

Still waiting for the videos. You know, it generally takes about 10 minutes to upload a video.

[k gledhill]

Dale be patient I too wait for the student to download them....

Ter's never heard the saying the best defense is a good offense...or how to impliment it using VT.

[Xiao3 Meng4]

Ter's never heard the saying the best defense is a good offense...

You really think a Defense Attorney has never heard of that?

[t_niehoff]

Terence doesn't understand , so it's fantasy

I understand what you are talking about. I learned this 25 years ago. This is nothing new. It simply doesn't work (unless you get extremely lucky and knock the guy silly with your first punch).

I also understand the saying "a good defense is a strong offense". However, a good defense isn't an offense that doesn't work. Simply throwing punches won't prevent your opponent from throwing punches too, from shooting in, from clinching, etc. And only using straight punches in free-movement, noncontact is very simply dealt with (which is why boxers,MT, and MMA fighters don't do that).

What that saying refers to is that while an opponent is playing defense, he cannot be playing offense. Just attacking him with straight punches won't force him on to defense.

The whole point of controlling your opponent while you strike him IS to keep him on defense -- to force him to continually deal with trying to extricate himself from your control before he can even think about attacking you, all the while using that control and his attempts to escape control as opportunities to strike. This is the game that chi sao teaches you, albeit in a unrealistic environment -- it is WCK with the training wheels on. When you play chi sao with someone "good", they control you, toss you around like a rag doll, all the while using that to set up strikes.

[Graham H]

chi-sao is not the way we fight its a mutual exchange of force between 2 VT fighters taking time out from sparring and each helping the other improve their abilities through high reps at speed and increasing pressure from each partner. We add random entry attacks and counters from each to create intuitive responses involving movement relative to certain actions from an opponent....all from no pre contact.
iow we aren't seeking to recreate chi-sao with the opponent in a clinch ...
.

Well worded Kevin.......

I'm tired of Terrence's view of Wing Chun and I've only been posting on here for a short time. He seems to be involved in most quarrels and by the end is normally singled out to be attacked from all angles. No point in me disaggreeing with his POV...... No point in trying to explain to somebody how to make a coffee when they can't even boil a kettle

Terrence???......que head slaps!!!!....and action!!!

GH

[LoneTiger108]

I am finding this thread a real joke as it seems that as brothers we can't even agree to a unified understanding of Fook Sau!

I also find it funny that nobody has mentioned that another translation for Fook is HIDDEN and it seems the concept of literal translation is still locked away in the Wing Chun vault somewhere in history!

Fook sau is just fook sau, as bong is just bong and tan is just tan. They are all part of a 'seed' that SHOULD unite us all. Unfortunately, even this is just not understood by everyone in the same way. What a shame.

Wing Chun is dying faster than I thought.

[Knifefighter]

I am finding this thread a real joke as it seems that as brothers we can't even agree to a unified understanding of Fook Sau!

I also find it funny that nobody has mentioned that another translation for Fook is HIDDEN and it seems the concept of literal translation is still locked away in the Wing Chun vault somewhere in history!

Fook sau is just fook sau, as bong is just bong and tan is just tan. They are all part of a 'seed' that SHOULD unite us all. Unfortunately, even this is just not understood by everyone in the same way. What a shame.

Wing Chun is dying faster than I thought.

That's what happens when you have a system in which most people are doing theoretical, pretend, non-fighting.

Notice how you won't find disagreement over what a triangle in BJJ is, an osoto-gari in judo is, a knee bar in Sambo is, a double leg takedown in wrestling is, a cross in boxing is, or a plum in Muay Thai is.
e

[LoneTiger108]

That's what happens when you have a system in which most people are doing theoretical, pretend, non-fighting.

Notice how you won't find disagreement over what a triangle in BJJ is, an osoto-gari in judo is, a knee bar in Sambo is, a double leg takedown in wrestling is, a cross in boxing is, or a plum in Muay Thai is.
e

I take your point but please don't try to convince me that other arts do not have their politics too! And I find it funny that you compare Wing Chun with these competitive 'sports'.

Wing Chun is not designed to please audiences, and from what I have researched there are as many fighters as there are theoriticians so your point is pretty much pointless imho.

[m1k3]

I take your point but please don't try to convince me that other arts do not have their politics too! And I find it funny that you compare Wing Chun with these competitive 'sports'.

Wing Chun is not designed to please audiences, and from what I have researched there are as many fighters as there are theoriticians so your point is pretty much pointless imho.

Sure they have politics and arguments, but not over the function of a basic technique.

As for the fighters would you care to show some examples?

[Knifefighter]

I take your point but please don't try to convince me that other arts do not have their politics too! And I find it funny that you compare Wing Chun with these competitive 'sports'.

Yeah, how silly of me to try to compare functional systems with one that is mostly theoretical.

[Knifefighter]

Wing Chun is not designed to please audiences, and from what I have researched there are as many fighters as there are theoriticians so your point is pretty much pointless imho.

LOL... not even close. You can tell that simply by comparing the demo vids to the full contact vids.