Qigong not really practical for health

[taai gihk yahn]

That would've been too easy!

and where's the pleasure in that? people pop a nice little chocky in their mouths, they don't expect to have their cheeks pierced!

[GeneChing]

sanjuro_ronin:
I do a variation of baduanjin. It's a compilation of several baduanjin forms that I've learned, plus some personal refinements. Note that it's not like I can stop an allergy attack if I do my baduanjin. I don't have as many attacks anymore since I've been doing it daily. I used to get floored for a week during spring. I went through a battery of cures, Western Rx, Eastern hocus pocus, you name it. I didn't start daily qigong for allergies at all. It was really icing when I realized that my allergies had subsided. I do notice that if I skip my baduanjin for a couple days, my allergies come back.

Mr Serenity:
Doing it the way it was taught you might not always be the best way if you're an inactive learner. What if someone taught you incorrectly? You've got to keep exploring it. I've learned dozens of baduanjin versions from different masters, many the top of their field (a perk of the job). I've still modified it to fit my needs. I have special needs.

[Mr Serenity]

So maybe a better title for this thread would be "the specific qigong that I did that my teacher told me would lower my blood pressure didn't do that after one month" instead of generalizing that qigong is impractical for health...

Because then instead of a whole bunch of people posting about how qigon can work and u sounding like a broken record playing "it didn't work for me", u wud hav gotten a few people posting something like , "yeah, ok"

I was actually challenging and am still challenging Qigong. The way I was taught it, was in a way where it seemed to have cures for almost everything. And it didn't help me with anything physical really. And for the most part all I see people on this thread saying Qigong helped them with is allergies, and improving their work outs. Well those are very minor things, as I have allergies too sometimes, they're a seasonal, and temporary. They aren't a chronic disease, and can even be cured with over the counter pills under $7, or with sufficient sleep.

That is where my reasoning comes into play, where logically I believe that Qigong can probably not work effectively for any chronic disease the way they say it can.
And as for traditional Chinese Medicine, in the U.S. this is actually more expensive than Western Medicine. Many health insurance do not cover that, as they basically see it as wasting their money.

So if you were to seek out the aid of a TCM doctor in the U.S. it would actually cost you more, than to seek out aid by insurance or government help. So if you want to consider a cheap alternative to TCM in the U.S. Qigong is one of them, but is it effective in a way where you will actually see a difference? I wouldn't bet money that it is.

So by me making this thread, I wanted to see what Qigong did for other people. Because from my experience I did come to the conclusion that it is not really practical for health. It probably is as practical for health as practical as killing someone with a spoon is. You can kill someone with a spoon, but it will take a very long time, when you could just use a knife or even a blunted stick.

So maybe Qigong does work for some beneficial things that meditation can bring you. But to make people think it can cure chronic diseases? I still sort of feel like that is B.S.. As I *did practice it for many months, not just one month. It was one month that I dedicated to a particular set of techniques aimed towards the same result to see if they would make any difference at all. And usually 1 month of practice to just one thing if it is potent it will show a difference.

[woliveri]

Mr Serenity, you're not even a pup in the Qigong world my friend. Not even a pup.

[David Jamieson]

Mr. Serenity

Allegorically speaking, you have used crayons and were not satisfied when you were unable to render out a masterpiece oil painting with them.

qigong is not a "pop a pill - you're done" method.

I would go so far as to say your experience is not experience at all beyond a very superficial level of understanding.

You are at the beginning of the novel and there may very well be twists along the way that you have not encountered yet.

Your very air of determined negativity about it paints you in a dimmer and dimmer light with every call of "well it didn't work for me".

[taai gihk yahn]

I was actually challenging and am still challenging Qigong. The way I was taught it, was in a way where it seemed to have cures for almost everything. And it didn't help me with anything physical really. And for the most part all I see people on this thread saying Qigong helped them with is allergies, and improving their work outs. Well those are very minor things, as I have allergies too sometimes, they're a seasonal, and temporary. They aren't a chronic disease, and can even be cured with over the counter pills under $7, or with sufficient sleep.

That is where my reasoning comes into play, where logically I believe that Qigong can probably not work effectively for any chronic disease the way they say it can.
And as for traditional Chinese Medicine, in the U.S. this is actually more expensive than Western Medicine. Many health insurance do not cover that, as they basically see it as wasting their money.

So if you were to seek out the aid of a TCM doctor in the U.S. it would actually cost you more, than to seek out aid by insurance or government help. So if you want to consider a cheap alternative to TCM in the U.S. Qigong is one of them, but is it effective in a way where you will actually see a difference? I wouldn't bet money that it is.

So by me making this thread, I wanted to see what Qigong did for other people. Because from my experience I did come to the conclusion that it is not really practical for health. It probably is as practical for health as practical as killing someone with a spoon is. You can kill someone with a spoon, but it will take a very long time, when you could just use a knife or even a blunted stick.

So maybe Qigong does work for some beneficial things that meditation can bring you. But to make people think it can cure chronic diseases? I still sort of feel like that is B.S.. As I *did practice it for many months, not just one month. It was one month that I dedicated to a particular set of techniques aimed towards the same result to see if they would make any difference at all. And usually 1 month of practice to just one thing if it is potent it will show a difference.

let's just say that, if you want to talk about something "working", a single person's anecdotal experience goes almost nowhere in terms of determining generalized efficacy; so just as one person's claim that qigong is a great cure-all because they had what they believed to be a positive effect cannot be substantiated, so too for one person to generalize that it doesn't work based on their own personal experience means very little;

again, no one can contradict your personal experience, nor too could anyone logically argue with your position that for you it makes more sense to invest in medications for your issues; and indeed, it would be the case for many people to do so; OTOH, I personally have worked with people for whom this route did not work when it came to their personal issues of chronic pain and dysfunction, for whom a pharmacological solution was not forth coming - for them, qigong practice was one of several methods that contributed to a signifiant improvement in their lives - but again, this was for a specific population, I am not generalizing to everyone - which is why you should not do so as well;

in fact, to generalize, one needs must conduct studies with sufficient validity and reliability to say anything in general; as such, a little perusal of the extant research on taiji / qigong will demonstrate that in fact there have been studies carried out demonstrating its positive effects, as well as those that have shown no difference; of course, every study has its flaws, and researching this sort of thing is inherently difficult, but the indications are out there that, at least under certain controlled circumstances, it "works"; certainly, more research needs to be done, but there is enough evidence out there that for someone to claim "qigong doesn't work at all", goes against a growing body of relatively objective data; so go do some homework before you make blanket statements, or just stick to the nature of your own experience;

as for your argument about TCM being less cost effective than "western" medicine, I can only say that if you understood the issue a bit more thoroughly, you would realize that this claim is a poorly-thought-out generalization as well; but that's as may be;

[mickey]

Hello Mr Serenity,

One of the things that I suggest that you do is look at your workouts. How intense is it? There is a weight training method that allows for strength training and aerobic benefits. It is called Peripheral Heart Action (PHA). One of its major proponents is Bob Gajda. I remember reading somewhere that he felt that doing consecutive sets of a particular exercise was not the best thing long term and that it brought about issues with blood pressure. PHA appears to be finally taking off. There is more and more info being put up about it on the net. You may want to do some research on that.

When it comes to any type of exercise involving Chi/Qi, there MUST be a phase where the energy is first built up. Equally important are dispersals that ground any excess energy accumulated. The type of Qigong that you do seems to lean heavy towards acupressure and reflexology. I don't know when you fit your practice in; but, it should be before you do anything else. And that includes running. This follows the rule of: "first build up chi; then you move it". See my thread here:

http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/foru...ad.php?t=58558

My experience with chi is not imaginary. It is real. I have no need to intellectualize about it with you. Oh, by the way, you cannot FORCE THE ISSUE with chi or CHALLENGE IT. You have to leave the ego completely out of it and surrender. If you have difficulty doing that, I suggest you try something that helps with surrendering the ego: Yoga. It is a great discipline. It is one of those gifts that you can give yourself that keeps on giving. It fits in nicely with weight training. Just make sure that you pick someone who has gone beyond the asanas (posture) and can guide you into the meditative practices. For some the asanas will be enough. Once you have learned to surrender, you are ready to learn any serious chi practice.

My best to you

mickey

[taai gihk yahn]

Once you have learned to surrender, you are ready to learn any serious chi practice.

countering one gross generalization with another gross generalization only makes matters worse

[mickey]

Hi TGY,

It is not gross. Reread his posts.


mickey

[taai gihk yahn]

Hi TGY,

It is not gross. Reread his posts.


mickey

it has nothing to do with his posts; your assertion that in order to to be able to do "serious chi practice" requires one to "surrender" is a broad generalization and your own projection that, while may be true for you personally, is not in any way a pre-requisite for others to be able to do so;

[mickey]

Hi,

I see where you are coming from. And I agree with you. I was actually being specific to him and not to everyone. I sensed that he objectifies (is that a word) his practice. His ego is very present in the writings and I sensed that it was getting in his way to real progress.

Then again, only he would know that.

mickey

[Mr Serenity]

Hello Mr Serenity,

One of the things that I suggest that you do is look at your workouts. How intense is it? There is a weight training method that allows for strength training and aerobic benefits. It is called Peripheral Heart Action (PHA). One of its major proponents is Bob Gajda. I remember reading somewhere that he felt that doing consecutive sets of a particular exercise was not the best thing long term and that it brought about issues with blood pressure. PHA appears to be finally taking off. There is more and more info being put up about it on the net. You may want to do some research on that.

When it comes to any type of exercise involving Chi/Qi, there MUST be a phase where the energy is first built up. Equally important are dispersals that ground any excess energy accumulated. The type of Qigong that you do seems to lean heavy towards acupressure and reflexology. I don't know when you fit your practice in; but, it should be before you do anything else. And that includes running. This follows the rule of: "first build up chi; then you move it". See my thread here:

http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/foru...ad.php?t=58558

My experience with chi is not imaginary. It is real. I have no need to intellectualize about it with you. Oh, by the way, you cannot FORCE THE ISSUE with chi or CHALLENGE IT. You have to leave the ego completely out of it and surrender. If you have difficulty doing that, I suggest you try something that helps with surrendering the ego: Yoga. It is a great discipline. It is one of those gifts that you can give yourself that keeps on giving. It fits in nicely with weight training. Just make sure that you pick someone who has gone beyond the asanas (posture) and can guide you into the meditative practices. For some the asanas will be enough. Once you have learned to surrender, you are ready to learn any serious chi practice.

My best to you

mickey

Mickey,
When I work out I do go to my very limits and past. I do several sets on different machines, basically what most do at the gym. I will look into PHA and yoga. When I meditate I do not expect much. I do it mostly to calm myself, and help get a more clear perception throughout my day. But naturally I am a confrontational and honest person. When I was being taught Qigong I was taught that each exercise could be used to cure a specific disease. I am by no means a sheep. I try to be logical, but not oblivious.

So obviously I put what I was learning to the test. Some people seem to get angry at what I am posting, but I am not posting flames. I am posting what I have experienced. To me it is the truth, as the topic of this title is that Qigong is not really practical for health. Here is the definition of practical. Practical: Likely to succeed or be effective in real circumstances.

In my experience Qigong was not effective or practical for what it was taught to me to do, and thus I shared my experience. I never said I didn't believe in chi. I just noticed that over the months I practiced it didn't seem to do what my teacher said it was supposed to do. If you have to do something for many months in order for it to work maybe it's not practical, maybe you have to do something different to get efficient results, that is how you find what is practical.

I am a martial artist and a competitor at heart. I have won many competitions. So I do look for what works with results and no nonsense. Is that an ego problem of mine, or just me trying to be practical? Maybe it's just the way different people look at it.

[mickey]

Hi Mr Serenity,

The ego thing is something I sensed from your writings. There is always the chance that I could be wrong.

Nevertheless, I wish you the very best in addressing your health issue.

Take good care,

mickey

[tiaji1983]

I was actually challenging and am still challenging Qigong. The way I was taught it, was in a way where it seemed to have cures for almost everything. And it didn't help me with anything physical really. And for the most part all I see people on this thread saying Qigong helped them with is allergies, and improving their work outs. Well those are very minor things, as I have allergies too sometimes, they're a seasonal, and temporary. They aren't a chronic disease, and can even be cured with over the counter pills under $7, or with sufficient sleep.

That is where my reasoning comes into play, where logically I believe that Qigong can probably not work effectively for any chronic disease the way they say it can.
And as for traditional Chinese Medicine, in the U.S. this is actually more expensive than Western Medicine. Many health insurance do not cover that, as they basically see it as wasting their money.
So if you were to seek out the aid of a TCM doctor in the U.S. it would actually cost you more, than to seek out aid by insurance or government help. So if you want to consider a cheap alternative to TCM in the U.S. Qigong is one of them, but is it effective in a way where you will actually see a difference? I wouldn't bet money that it is.

So by me making this thread, I wanted to see what Qigong did for other people. Because from my experience I did come to the conclusion that it is not really practical for health. It probably is as practical for health as practical as killing someone with a spoon is. You can kill someone with a spoon, but it will take a very long time, when you could just use a knife or even a blunted stick.

So maybe Qigong does work for some beneficial things that meditation can bring you. But to make people think it can cure chronic diseases? I still sort of feel like that is B.S.. As I *did practice it for many months, not just one month. It was one month that I dedicated to a particular set of techniques aimed towards the same result to see if they would make any difference at all. And usually 1 month of practice to just one thing if it is potent it will show a difference.

I thought TGY gave me reasons why Qigong and Taiji cured my knee pain... Even if its not because of Qi, doesnt that still make it practical to cure a chronic ailment?