Qigong not really practical for health

[Mr Serenity]

I am not here to offend people, or to troll Qigong, but after practicing it for about 6 months now I have really been questioning as to how practical it really is. I am an open minded person, but I am also no nonsense and a truth seeker.

I took up Qigong to possibly help better my health, as I have no health insurance and I have high blood pressure with bad skin/acne/break outs. I work out 5x a week, but even so I still have these problems. I did learn from a teacher and I rather not bad mouth him, as I believe he fully believes what he teaches works.

But for me it hasn't worked to improve my health. And I could never tell him this, that the techniques he taught me don't work. I believe that Qi exists, as you can feel it after a while. But what I think I don't believe in, is the ability to heal yourself with Qi. I don't believe that is practical compared to modern medicine.

With me having no insurance I *want to believe that Qigong can improve your bodies health, but my experience is showing otherwise. For 1 month I practiced a Qigong exercise on how to lower my blood pressure. I also did many things to reduce stress during this time and included my physical workout routine.

After my 1 month trial doing this exercise it was found that my blood pressure did not lower at all, that it remained the same. So after that I stopped practicing that Qigong technique and I got access to some medicine at a free clinic. Within 1 month my blood pressure went down, and to a normal level with this free medicine.

My Qigong teacher says that he doesn't take medicine, that way his body learns how to react when it gets sick. But for me, if I don't take medicine I put myself in danger. I also have asthma from a young age. It is well controlled with my medicine. But if I do not take maintenance medicine for my asthma and I jog 2 miles like I usually do several times a week I will wheeze very bad. This is out of my control, and unfortunately I do not think Qigong can help with any of the health problems I have.

If it can help with anything, maybe it can serve as meditation to calm the mind. But I do not see it as actually having health benefits besides that. If any of you guys think differently, or just want to comment feel free.

[taai gihk yahn]

it can depend on lots of factors; for example, what sort of qigong you are doing - qigong runs the gamut from lying down and doing internal visualization to rigorous kinetic aerobic work: it's not magic, but if you want to have a physiological effect, you need to target the proper systems in the right way; if you are depressed, doing internal imagery work may not be as useful as vigorous movements; similarly, HBP may respond better to seated respiratry type work - or not - qigong is not a unified field, and because there is such variety, to generalize it's efficacy or lack thereof is risky; I mean, there have been studies showing taiji can lower BP, so we can look at the components of what was involved: slow, intentioned movement could be one factor; of course, practicing together in a a social environment may be another, especially if your sample population are geriatric clients who are looking for social opportunities;
the other thing is that qigong is based on TCM principles; however, what people forget is that TCM does not diagnose HBP per se - although it may recognize patterns where hypertension is a factor, it will not focus on that one aspect per se, mainly because TCM doesn't measure BP specifically; so when a qigong guy says that it's good for HBP, he's probably feeding you some standardized routine that was used for a given TCM pattern that was correlated to HBP by some people at one point in time in order to try to give a "western" spin to TCM;

as far as healing yourself with "qi" - "qi" is not some sort of discreet entity like heat, or electricity or magnetism that you beam across the room at someone that zaps the disease - qi is a descriptive methodology that is used in TCM as a way to describe the net effects of a variety of dynamic processes; it's an organizational meme that has both diagnostic and prognostic power to a certain degree; of course, some people like to think that they are beaming health, love and granola at someone else, but that's not what's happening;

here's the thing to consider - in the one month that you practiced, how often, how consistently and most importantly, in what affective state? if you diligently did your exercises every day exactly as prescribed and made a point to never miss a session, and got stressed if you did or thought you might and whenever you practiced your intention was concertedly focused on lowering your BP, well, TBH, it's not surprising that you didn't! remember, BP is a highly volatile thing, and changes due to many different factors; of course, meds will change the bichemistry directly, which is why they work fast and consistently; but this is in effect overiding the physiological response to one's internal state of mind - and this may not be a bad thing, of course - but if you want to do it "naturally", then you must consider all the variables - so if u have high stress job, or genetic predisposition, or practice like a fiend everyday, well, ur BP may just not b going any lower; OTOH, if u approach ur practice in a non-expectant manner, cut yourself slack if u miss it, don' get too hung up on exactly replicating the moves and try instead to feel what your body wants to do, how it wants to move, and modify your practice according to your sense of your inner state rather than following an external "prescriton" without variation, you may have a better chance of ur HBP going down; again, just an example of why it may not "work" al the time - qigong is not a pill that works regardless of the other environmental factors - because it is a way of working "naturally", it will b more sensitive to a variety of infuences, and less rapid to change things (a month to lower BP w qigon, esp if it's chronic HTN, isn't all that much, really), but over time, it, in thery, will become more "effective"; of course, you may not hav that sort of time or may not wish to invest it into the practice, and indeed you may just not be the kind of person who can roll that way - and that's fine, that's why we have meds, and by all means, take them and don't feel like you are "cheating" - for al you know, you may outlive many a qigong master that way - no one can say for sure, and so don't get hung up on the method, do what works for you; of course, if u decide u like the qigong and feel good doing it, then keep at it, maybe over time it will help to change ur BP, and u might b able to decrease or even d/c ur meds (as long as u do this w ur doc fully aware, of course);

so while qigong isn't a cure-all, at the same time, given ur specific exprience, I would b cautious about generalizing - suffice it to say, your particular one-month qigong practice was not sufficient to the task of lowering your BP - but to say it's because qigong doesn't "work" is extrapolating in error and over generalizing;

[Mr Serenity]

taai gihk yahn,
I was practicing 1 technique faithfully for the hbp. That involved massaging my finger tips from left to right. Then I had 2 more that I was doing occasionally. One where you stand up and "expel" evil heat out of your system, and another where you sit down and deep breath meditation.

The deep breath one, was very basic and supposed to help for many things. I have been doing that one many months now. But even with that one, it does not help my skin over many months. I still have to wash my face with clearasil twice a day, and the Qigong does not help to clear it.

I was doing a spiritual style of Qigong. I still want it to work if it can. But all the time I spent on it, I do more or less feel it's not practical for health issues, especially when compared to modern Western medicine. Though soon I will be practicing a different style of Qigong from a different teacher that is a "martial style". Before practicing with him, I will tell him that I think Qigong doesn't work for health due to my experiences, but I want it to work if it can.

Since he is a martial style teacher, I think he will be more practical about it. Because me being a martial artist of several years myself, I say you should use what is effective. If you have to practice Qigong daily, for many months to get a positive effect on your health that is not effective compared to modern medicine of only a few weeks or less.

[taai gihk yahn]

taai gihk yahn,
I was practicing 1 technique faithfully for the hbp. That involved massaging my finger tips from right to left. Then I had 2 more that I was doing occasionally. One where you stand up and "expel" evil heat out of your system, and another where you sit down and deep breath meditation.

The deep breath one, was very basic and supposed to help for many things. I have been doing that one many months now. But even with that one, it does not help my skin over many months. I still have to wash my face with clearasil twice a day, and the Qigong does not help to clear it.

I was doing a spiritual style of Qigong. I still want it to work if it can. But all the time I spent on it, I do more or less feel it's not practical for health issues, especially when compared to modern Western medicine. Though soon I will be practicing a different style of Qigong from a different teacher that is a "martial style". Before practicing with him, I will tell him that I think Qigong doesn't work for health due to my experiences, but I want it to work if it can.

Since he is a martial style teacher, I think he will be more practical about it. Because me being a martial artist of several years myself, I say you should use what is effective. If you have to practice Qigong daily, for many months to get a positive effect on your health that is not effective compared to modern medicine of only a few weeks or less.

ok, if we r going to hav a conversation, you can't change your point in the middle of it; your first post was NOT a comparison between the efficacy of qigong and so-called "western" medicine (which is a misnomer, and a really poor way of classifying things, but whatever, I know no one really cares enough to be precise these days), it was you saying qigong "wasn't effective"; my point was to qualify that statement somewhat and point out some possible reasons why it didn't work in your case; if you note, I also said that if taking meds for HTN worked for u then by all means do that; but also, i pointed out that qigon, in order to have a real effect, might take longer than one month to "work", because it is engaging the bodiy's natural homeostatic mechanism in order to effect change - well, if you've spent 50 years of your life developing the environment for HTN to flourish, one month of qigong isn't really going to make all that much of a dent in it - it may take 6 months, a year, or more - if u enjoy the practice, if u feel good doing it, then u mite b willing to invest that amt of time to cultivate it; but of course HTN meds will work faster, because they push the physiology more directly - which is fine, and often will save your life before any qigong would have the chance to do so;

so to say that qigong is ineffective because it's not as efficient as taking meds is a bit off tack - qigong won't work as fast because by it's nature it's not designed to - it is a bit like gently nudging the system back on track - so it is a long-term practice designed to promote homeostasis - which is something that meds do not do inherently - they are designed to manage a particular issue; however, they often have side effects - and of course, side effects are better than being dead. but it's not a cultivation, and therefore you personally do not gain insite into your own self-condition, and do not develop the ability to help urself in certain cases where u might b able to;;

for example, myself - having done qigong for 15 years, although i do not practice daily at this point, I can still use it to do certain things - for example, if I feel a cold coming on that I wasn't able to prevent proactively, I can do certain qigongs to "speed up" my metabolism, to help push the cold through my system faster; or if I am having trouble sleeping, I can do certain qigongs to help me get to sleep - in both cases, I could use meds, but because I have trained over years, I do not need to do so; OTOH, if I had acute sepsis, I would be the first in line at the ER; also, I feel that my qigong practice has helped me be a lot less stressed out in general - does that mean it prevented my developing chronic HTN? I don't know; OTOH, I blew out L5 last year and had it surgically repaired; qigong didn't prevent that, but post surgically doing it sped up my recovery and decreased my post op pain more quickly than is the case typically for patients;

so it's not a cure-all, but it has health value, IMPE; but again, it's relative; and, I should say, I see it as an extension of myself - meaning I try to live it in terms of the principle, so even if i don't practice formally every day, I try to embody the practice in my daily life; which to me, is really what matters, and gets to the heart of taoist practice in general;

but if it doesn't wok for you, just move on - why stick w what isn't working? makes no sense...maybe try yoga, the approach is a lot more linear in terms of cause and effect, and u mite have more succes using that approach

[mawali]

I am not here to offend people, or to troll Qigong, but after practicing it for about 6 months now I have really been questioning as to how practical it really is. I am an open minded person, but I am also no nonsense and a truth seeker.

I took up Qigong to possibly help better my health, as I have no health insurance and I have high blood pressure with bad skin/acne/break outs. I work out 5x a week, but even so I still have these problems. I did learn from a teacher and I rather not bad mouth him, as I believe he fully believes what he teaches works.

But for me it hasn't worked to improve my health. And I could never tell him this, that the techniques he taught me don't work. I believe that Qi exists, as you can feel it after a while. But what I think I don't believe in, is the ability to heal yourself with Qi. I don't believe that is practical compared to modern medicine.

With me having no insurance I *want to believe that Qigong can improve your bodies health, but my experience is showing otherwise. For 1 month I practiced a Qigong exercise on how to lower my blood pressure. I also did many things to reduce stress during this time and included my physical workout routine.

After my 1 month trial doing this exercise it was found that my blood pressure did not lower at all, that it remained the same. So after that I stopped practicing that Qigong technique and I got access to some medicine at a free clinic. Within 1 month my blood pressure went down, and to a normal level with this free medicine.

My Qigong teacher says that he doesn't take medicine, that way his body learns how to react when it gets sick. But for me, if I don't take medicine I put myself in danger. I also have asthma from a young age. It is well controlled with my medicine. But if I do not take maintenance medicine for my asthma and I jog 2 miles like I usually do several times a week I will wheeze very bad. This is out of my control, and unfortunately I do not think Qigong can help with any of the health problems I have.

If it can help with anything, maybe it can serve as meditation to calm the mind. But I do not see it as actually having health benefits besides that. If any of you guys think differently, or just want to comment feel free.

I agree with you!
Many people try to 'market' qigong as a one size cure all method and this is the main cause of dissatisfaction for many. The presentation by many is also a big factor, to wit, "take my qigong and you will be cured of all your ills" syndrome.

As an example, qigong as a cure for asthma is a bad intro since the etiology does not lend itself to cure. We can surely assist it with the corresponding allopathic methods (anything opening the bronchial structure and nothing to aggravate the condition). Calming the mind also does not cure asthma but it may provide the clarity to examine self hygenic strategies to diminish the condition.
I had asthma as a child but when I moved from a temperate climate to a more Northern one, I had outgrown it! Perhaps a drier climate did alot to help and even diminish the condition.

[David Jamieson]

I am not here to offend people, or to troll Qigong, but after practicing it for about 6 months now I have really been questioning as to how practical it really is. I am an open minded person, but I am also no nonsense and a truth seeker.

I took up Qigong to possibly help better my health, as I have no health insurance and I have high blood pressure with bad skin/acne/break outs. I work out 5x a week, but even so I still have these problems. I did learn from a teacher and I rather not bad mouth him, as I believe he fully believes what he teaches works.

But for me it hasn't worked to improve my health. And I could never tell him this, that the techniques he taught me don't work. I believe that Qi exists, as you can feel it after a while. But what I think I don't believe in, is the ability to heal yourself with Qi. I don't believe that is practical compared to modern medicine.

With me having no insurance I *want to believe that Qigong can improve your bodies health, but my experience is showing otherwise. For 1 month I practiced a Qigong exercise on how to lower my blood pressure. I also did many things to reduce stress during this time and included my physical workout routine.

After my 1 month trial doing this exercise it was found that my blood pressure did not lower at all, that it remained the same. So after that I stopped practicing that Qigong technique and I got access to some medicine at a free clinic. Within 1 month my blood pressure went down, and to a normal level with this free medicine.

My Qigong teacher says that he doesn't take medicine, that way his body learns how to react when it gets sick. But for me, if I don't take medicine I put myself in danger. I also have asthma from a young age. It is well controlled with my medicine. But if I do not take maintenance medicine for my asthma and I jog 2 miles like I usually do several times a week I will wheeze very bad. This is out of my control, and unfortunately I do not think Qigong can help with any of the health problems I have.

If it can help with anything, maybe it can serve as meditation to calm the mind. But I do not see it as actually having health benefits besides that. If any of you guys think differently, or just want to comment feel free.

Well, it's not a panacea and it certainly isn't a single point remedy.

Qigong is often in concert with other lifestyle practices that support each other.

Have you examined your diet?

Are you expecting a cure for you asthma or are you looking for a way to regulate it better without drugs?

Perhaps qigong cannot help you. It certainly isn't going to cause you worse harm though.

I personally have benefited greatly in my health from qigong practice over many years.

[woliveri]

All Qigong exercises were not created equal. Teaching a Qigong exercise to someone should be approached just like a TCM doctor prescribes herbs. In a methodical progression towards an end result. You can't just give someone any Nilly Willy Qigong exercise to anyone and expect them to have results. You must tailor the exercise to fit that individual. Just as some herbs (tonifying) are given where someone who's system that herb targets is not ready for it, they will experience negative results.

Finding a good teacher (which is quite difficult) is important.

Absent of a teacher, I've heard good things about Terry Dunn's Flying Phoenix Heavenly Qigong DVD series.

[GeneChing]

It keeps my allergies at bay. My blood pressure still runs a little high at times, but I'll take the qigong over allergy meds any day.

You must be doing it wrong.

[sanjuro_ronin]

It keeps my allergies at bay. My blood pressure still runs a little high at times, but I'll take the qigong over allergy meds any day.

You must be doing it wrong.

What qigong do you do for allergies dude?
Mine are horrible as of late !!

[Mr Serenity]

taai gihk yahn,
My teacher believes that Qigong can almost cure everything. That is why I compared it to Western medicine. Because if you have money, good health insurance like Western medicine can treat just about everything. With actual results. Not months without results. I aim to be a practical person, so that is why I brought it up. I just don't see the practical use in Qigong yet, besides meditation, but if there is a practical use for it. I'd like to see it eventually.


mawali,
Yes that is how my teacher thinks that it can almost cure all. And I have met a few people that think the mind can cure everything. This is nice to think, but it is not wise or practical logic in my opinion. Because I have a stronger will power than most people. Yet it is easy for me to see that my body has its limits and its faults.

For those faults, I need medication, or some very strong Qigong. My mind alone cannot revert my body to completely healthy.


David Jamieson,
My diet is average. Not too bad, not too good. I never go over 2000 calories a day, I also weight lift a heavy amount about 2-3 a week, so I need the 2000 calories a day at least. I am also not expecting a cure for my asthma through Qigong. I exercise a lot and have tried to not take my meds and just work out hoping my lungs will build resistance, but it doesn't work like that for me.

The more I work out without my meds the more I see that I need my meds not to wheeze. I doubt that Qigong can help with my asthma, never thought it could. Now my skin though. I have occasional acne break outs. Qigong *should be able to help with that at a minimum if it can do anything for your health. But it hasn't helped me with that in my 6 months practicing.


woliveri,
I agree that not all Qigong is created equal. Just the same as martial arts. The teacher is more important than the style. That's why I will go try another teacher/style soon, and maybe I will get better results. Thank you for the suggestion to the video.


GeneChing,
I could be doing it wrong. But I am doing it the way it was taught to me. It has helped me to calm down in many ways, that improves my mental health a bit. It is a good method of meditating. But it hasn't improved my physical health, probably at all. I have lost weight and gained substantial muscle this year, but that is due to cardio and weight lifting.

[bawang]

martial qigong is for helping muscle recovery after lifting weights and helping healing the hands after hitting bags etc.
a lot of martial qigong is weight excercises without the weights. some martial qigong are warmup excercises for weight lifting. for example lift the sky is a warm up and warm down for military press. it wont cure cancer lol

find medical qigong and do excercise like light weight lifting and running and see if theres improvement

and ur qigong isnt falun gong is it? lol

[MartialDev]

taai gihk yahn,
My teacher believes that Qigong can almost cure everything. That is why I compared it to Western medicine. Because if you have money, good health insurance like Western medicine can treat just about everything. With actual results. Not months without results. I aim to be a practical person, so that is why I brought it up. I just don't see the practical use in Qigong yet, besides meditation, but if there is a practical use for it. I'd like to see it eventually.

Perhaps instead of choosing a qigong teacher who believes that their method works, you should find a real qigong doctor whose numerous patients will happily testify that it works?

[Scott R. Brown]

Or you could just take a 30 minute walk everyday. Its free and it has been demonstrably shown to help lower blood pressure.

[tiaji1983]

I dont know if this is true... I read somewhere that Cancer is a deformed cell that grows and becomes tumors etc. I read that the deep breathing in Qigong further oxygenates the cell making cell growth, reproduction and regeneration easier and more efficient, preventing and in some cases curing cancerous cells. Not saying its true but I read it somewhere...

[Mr Serenity]

Or you could just take a 30 minute walk everyday. Its free and it has been demonstrably shown to help lower blood pressure.

Maybe you didn't read what I posted Scott, but I work out 5x a week. Cardio, and weight lift. When I go to the gym I don't drive, I jog almost 3 miles. All that and the Qigong did not lower my blood pressure until I took the meds.