A Serious Discussion about the Argument.

[MightyB]

Let's be honest. Does it really matter? I mean - does it really matter if we perceive effectiveness in a martial art? 'Cuz - to be totally honest... the notion of martial arts for real self defense is a little ridiculous. I'm being serious here.

When the cr@p hits the fan, and we're talking a real life and death situation - forced entry, armed robbery, car jacking, serial killer, shooting spree, hostage situation, kidnapping, etc -

- mental preparation, an escape plan, mental toughness and a desire to survive and escape, fear of what the criminal intends to do more than fear of immediate injury (since your best chance for escape is at the initial crime scene - you have no chance if you cooperate and let them transport you to crime scene #2, or let them bind you in some way). This is real self defense.


It's not forms, it's not sport training, it's not TMA in any way. Here's another point, if it involves gadgets, it's not going to work. If it is specialized "for women" or "women's self defense" - not only is that sexist, it's not going to work (if it's not good enough for a man, it's not good enough for a woman either - besides, self defense is about mental preparation and mental toughness, not gender)

My point is - does it matter if we think most TCMA'ers are poseurs because they'd get their arses handed to them in a sporting environment? And does it matter if TCMA'ers dislike MMA'ers because they "have no class" or "sense of lineage" and "haven't seen the real kung fu"?

I say let it be man - just let it be. MA means something different to everybody. I like a good workout and a competitive environment to relieve stress. Some people like meditation and choreographed movements to relieve stress.

Let's agree to disagree and move on.

[Lucas]

never!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Dragonzbane76]

Let's be honest. Does it really matter? I mean - does it really matter if we perceive effectiveness in a martial art? 'Cuz - to be totally honest... the notion of martial arts for real self defense is a little ridiculous. I'm being serious here.

When the cr@p hits the fan, and we're talking a real life and death situation - forced entry, armed robbery, car jacking, serial killer, shooting spree, hostage situation, kidnapping, etc -

- mental preparation, an escape plan, mental toughness and a desire to survive and escape, fear of what the criminal intends to do more than fear of immediate injury (since your best chance for escape is at the initial crime scene - you have no chance if you cooperate and let them transport you to crime scene #2, or let them bind you in some way). This is real self defense.


It's not forms, it's not sport training, it's not TMA in any way. Here's another point, if it involves gadgets, it's not going to work. If it is specialized "for women" or "women's self defense" - not only is that sexist, it's not going to work (if it's not good enough for a man, it's not good enough for a woman either - besides, self defense is about mental preparation and mental toughness, not gender)

My point is - does it matter if we think most TCMA'ers are poseurs because they'd get their arses handed to them in a sporting environment? And does it matter if TCMA'ers dislike MMA'ers because they "have no class" or "sense of lineage" and "haven't seen the real kung fu"?

I say let it be man - just let it be. MA means something different to everybody. I like a good workout and a competitive environment to relieve stress. Some people like meditation and choreographed movements to relieve stress.

Let's agree to disagree and move on.

Do you want true self defense???????

BUY A GUN.................END OF DISCUSSION.

It's proven they work.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Let's agree to disagree and move on.

Where's the fun in that ???

[Violent Designs]

the best form of self defense is self offense, so to not be serial killed, you have to become a serial killer before everyone else.

MY LOGIC IS UNFALLIBLE.

[Badger]

Learn to use guns...Learn to use guns under stress...TRain your body to be strong and use techs that are simple & work...this helps you retain your gun...If you are in Shape you can run away if you have to...you can chase if you have to....you may have to defend with your hands to get to your gun...Use what works & get a gun....

When In Doubt I Whip It Out......

[hskwarrior]

First line of defense = awareness, avoidance.

Second line of defense = firearms.

Third line of defense = projectiles.

Fourth line of defense = hand held ballistic or cutting weapons and full contact training with them.

Fifth line of defense = fighting back based on hard, MMA style fight training.

Sixth line of defense = strength developed by resistive training.

Seventh line of defense = athletic ability developed from sports.

Eighth line of defense = endurance and speed developed from running training.

Ninth line of defense = agility developed from gymastics, dance or ballet.

Last line of defense = TMA training.

thats right save the best for last.

[KC Elbows]

It's worth noting that Bullshido implemented a tag to show fight experience because most of the loudest, most obnoxious anti-tma folk were backing out of challenges because they were actually completely unqualified martial artists and were making challenges with potential psychos.

It's also worth pointing out that if I have a problem with the course of kung fu, and I'm a kung fu guy, the solution is not me telling you what to do, but to not only reform my line, but share those reforms. Until we see books, articles, and websites from myself, MightyB, Masterkiller, Lucas, Drake, Dragonzbane, et al, that give useful info backed by usage, the solution is not me telling them to do it for me.

And if my style is, say, choy li fut, and there is not one example of someone using choi li fut throwing methodology online, while there is of chen style and SC and Chang style, I should not run around talking about how, based on choi li fut, throwing in cma is not practiced.

Further, if I went to one school, or solely attended kung fu tournament based schools, or in some other way failed to do research, I'll not assume others didn't.

If my kung fu teacher said weights were bad, I'll try not to forget that Wai Lun Choi's guys used weights in training all the time.

I had five ma teachers in my life, one Japanese, he was a nice guy and taught well enough and made no claims, one American and a nutcase doing a *******ized version of tang soo doe who talked about how bad everyone else was, and three kung fu teachers. The best of those kung fu teachers never bad mouthed other styles, fought sanshou in his youth, and considered sparring a standard part of training for those who wanted to do that, as well as actually having trained in a lot of styles including muay thai. The next best liked to train boxing and bjj as well, and had nothing against weights or modern training methods, and advocated sparring, though grew in his ability to coach it.

If this does not match your experience, then I don't care if you claim that everyone says they found the real deal, I flat out did better than you, whether through luck or, in most cases, design, so you might be better not generalizing your experiences to me, and I won't pretend ground fighting doesn't matter, mkay?

[Badger]

Check out "Die Less Often" Series with Gabe Suarez & Crafty Dog.... & Get A Gun...

[Badger]

KC ,you need to say all that is a rhyme so i can understand it...

[KC Elbows]

First line of defense = awareness, avoidance.

Second line of defense = firearms.

Third line of defense = projectiles.

Fourth line of defense = hand held ballistic or cutting weapons and full contact training with them.

Fifth line of defense = fighting back based on hard, MMA style fight training.

Sixth line of defense = strength developed by resistive training.

Seventh line of defense = athletic ability developed from sports.

Eighth line of defense = endurance and speed developed from running training.

Ninth line of defense = agility developed from gymastics, dance or ballet.

Last line of defense = TMA training.

I forgot to mention, If I'm a little person with strong family ties to magicians, psychics, and other circus folk, I'll troll the internet while smoking cigars with the young carnies and telling them about the good old days porking Margaret Hamilton from a step ladder on the set of Wizard of Oz.

[KC Elbows]

KC ,you need to say all that is a rhyme so i can understand it...

You don't want to start all that again!

Good to see you, Badger!

[Badger]

LOL...nice seeing ya brother..

[Badger]

Just do it like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_stGT-SoJoI

[Lucas]

the true purpose of martial arts:

getting laid

anyone who tells you otherwise is either lying, wrong, or a woman. (women do it so that guys will want to screw them and so that they can say no and be all hot and fit and **** us off.)

self defense and murder and all that other cool stuff is just an awesome byproduct of practicing martial arts.