What's the deal with Tang Soo Do?

[handsome]

Tang Soo Do is a very simple and a basic stuff comparing to JKD and Wing Chun. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img]

Gordon

[handsome]

Tang Soo Do is a very simple and basic stuff comparing to JKD and Wing Chun. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img]

Gordon

[Shaolin Master]

Then lets be stupid

That being the case...
JKD/Wing Chun are very simple stuff compared to other traditional chinese martial arts

Like as if anything is better due to complication...

It is the level of understanding no matter which art. (the practitioner as we have said a million times).

Regards

Shi chan Long

[kenpoman]

Is someone trying to argue that wing chun is exciting? I must have misread...I'll reread from the beginning.

[Terry]

TangSooDo (TSD) is a true, traditional Korean martial art, not a M.A. like TaeKwonDo (TKD). TSD descends from the 2000 yrs old art of SooBahkDo. It is still a complete art, with 50/50 hands & feet (including sweeps, takedowns, joint locks, punches, kicks, practical self defense, and all the Korean weapons). It's not sport oriented like modern TKD. The techniques (blocks, kicks & punches) are very similar to TKD, if not identical in some cases. Emphasis of the art is more on self defense, spirituality/philosopy and not competition.

The occupation of Korea by the Japanese military took place from 1909-1945 when practicing & teaching of M.A. was restricted. After the war, this restriction was lifted. Master Hwang Kee organized the Korean SooBahkDo Association (TSD) in 1945. Besides the SooBahkDo Assn existence in Korea, there were various types of other M.A. in the other Kwans. In 1965 all of these other systems were united into one organization called the Korean TaeKwonDo Assn, and the art was called TaeKwonDo uniformly. TSD and TKD were divided with TSD striving to remain as a traditional M.A. while TKD held its world games and sports. TSD at first glance looks very similar to Japanese/Okinawa karate as both had great influence from China's Tang Dynasty. TSD uses some of the same form sets as karate, with variation in the techniques & application. As with HapKiDo & HwarangDo, it is a direct descendent of the fighting style of the Hwarang Warrior/Scholars that unified the Korean pennisula 1,300 yrs ago. TSD black belts wear the traditional top of a Hwarang warrior, white top trimmed in black satin. Some kwans of TDO use midnight blue instead of black. It's just a philosphical difference in the meaning of the colors. At the higher levels of TSD, a great emphasis is put on the spiritual side and the healing arts. This is also a direct link from the Hwarang, as they were great healers as well as scholars & warriors.

[Taijimantis]

It is difficult in the town I live in to find anything that is not Okinawan or Korean. The Japanese styles and Okinawan systems dominate, and there seems to be a dojo on every corner.

I am very fortunate to have a world-class sifu here. And my loyalty lies with him.

However other than Tae Kwon Do, there is no Tang Soo Do Moo Duk Kwon anywhere. I have to drive an hour North of here to learn. I am in no hurry for any kind of "belt" ( I dont really believe in belt ranking anyway) so I go once or twice a month and practive the forms at home (sometimes I am allowed to video a certain form or technique for referrence while I am gone, with permission from the instructor) then I go back and show what I have learned, and answer questions about Kung Fu. The class is taught by a man who loves the art, and teaches to give back to his community and for the area kids. He teaches at no cost from a town hall and a church. His Black Belts epitomize the heart and soul of loving kindness and honor expected of classical martial artists.

It is run like a true "club" with a summer camp, and fundraisers for anything from parties, to trips to Florida to visit Grandmaster Kim.

I get tired of hearing about how TSD is like TKD, and how it is inferior or somehow useless. I am glad to hear others give it the credit it deserves, and I thank you.

Namaste.

[Kung Lek]

Shaolin Master-

Wing Chun IS the Distilled method of Shaolin Boxing. It was created to teach martial skill quickly to those who had none.

JKD was born of Bruce Lee, developed by Bruce Lee and later further developed by those who carried his legacy (Mostly Dan Inosanto and his students)

Bruces first art was Wing Chun in Yip Man's school.
Yip Man added much to the Wing Chun curriculum that he taught and brought it further than what it originally was.

I don't believe that it is "talking stupid" to say that wing chun is a distilled version of a larger art form or that JKD is also a distilled version of a larger art form.

eventually and with time, I think that JKD will become and is becoming a "system" as much as all its proponents say its a "concept" they are placing hard and fast rules on it to keep it from becoming what so many other martial arts have become ...incomplete.

peace

Kung Lek

[Terry]

Sorry for the typo error. Near the last sentence "Some kwans of TDO use midnight blue..." the TDO s/b TSD. That correction should eliminate any confussion the typing error may have caused.

[This message was edited by Terry on 11-24-00 at 11:30 AM.]

[This message was edited by Terry on 11-24-00 at 11:31 AM.]

[Taijimantis]

I didnt think there was an attack against Wing Chun or JKD, was there?
I saw a response to a post that seemed to make TSD out to be an inferior art form and the response basically said (like so many others) "there are no superior arts only superior artists."

Laidies and Gentlemen, lets try not to let thinskin get in the way of otherwise good converstion!

Namaste.

[rogue]

Terry, it's my understanding that Hapkido decended from Aikido and not the Hwarang. This was stated by Joo Bang Lee.

I used to be daga

[Terry]

rogue - sorry I cannot confirm nor argue your info on Hapkido. The info on TSD that I posted came third hand - from a 3rd Degree Black Black (Tang Soo Do) who researched his style. I do not know his source of the info. It's possible that the Hapkido part of his info is incorrect.

[kenpoman]

Hapkido descended from Daito Ryu aiki jutsu...as did aikido. Both styles share the same origin, but grew in directions that are very different.

Hwarang is not the traditional art some think it is...it's only 50 or so years old with its founder alive and well today.

[MonkeySlap Too]

Hwang Kee admitted that he learned from a book while working at a Japanese railroad station in Japanese occupied Manchuria. It was most likely a Shotokan karate book. The applications, training methodology, fighting strategies and approach of TSD has much more to do with Karate than with any CMA. If Tang Soo Do is influenced by CMA, it is not due to any instruction from actual CMA instructors.

If you do not beleive me, go talk to a competent CMA practitioner and compare. It's just different.

I am a big beleiver in luck. The more I work, the more luck I have.

[Black Jack]

Hapkido was founded by Choi Yong Sool (1904-1986), who, from 1919 to the beginning of WWII, had studied Daito-ryu Aiki JuJitsu in Japan.

It is said that Choi learned this art from its headmaster Takeda Sokaku. Daito-ryu Aiki JuJitsu is one of the arts Morihei Ueshiba synthesized into Aikido. Around 1939-40 Choi returned to his native Korea and combined his kowledge of Aiki Jujitsu with the Korean system of Hwarang-Do and at a latter date Taekyon.

From what has been stated to me is that Choi never mastered the vast Aiki JuJitsu system of Daito-ryu and only got to about the first circle of mastery in the system as there are three levels of techniques.

Daito-ryu Aiki JuJitsu comes from the Tekada family and is also responsible for many of the techniques you seen in Aikido.

As to where the gathered the tools to create there family system of Daito-ryu I have no clue.

Regards

[Terry]

If anyone is interested, there's a research paper by Bob Duggan covering Hwa Rang Do. There's a section covering the relationship between Hwa Rang Do and Tang Soo Do. The site is as follows:

www.theexoticarts.com/Personal.html