kung fu or bjj

[Knifefighter]

Everyone always says brazilian jiu jitsu, here are old chinese kung fu photos from early 1900's

The difference between those and BJJ is that BJJ actually uses those techs against resisting opponents. Those pics clearly show people who were not using them and testing them because they do not work the way they are shown in that diagram.

[KwaiChangCaine]

Bjj manuals show techniques using compliant partners. Doesn't mean they don't work the techniques live.

[Knifefighter]

Bjj manuals show techniques using compliant partners. Doesn't mean they don't work the techniques live.

No, but when they show the techs, they actually show them the way they have to be applied to actually work. The pics in the original docs weren't showing the techs in a way they would actually work. When you actually use the techs, you demonstrate them the way you have learned that they work against a resisting opponent. You still apply the technique in a valid manner, even when the opponent is complying. The original demos wouldn't work the way they are being shown.

[Three Harmonies]

The Chinese NEVER developed a comprehensive curriculum on the ground. period. Just because they shared a few common holds, submissions and what not means nothing.

[Dragonzbane76]

The Chinese NEVER developed a comprehensive curriculum on the ground. period. Just because they shared a few common holds, submissions and what not means nothing.
__________________

been preaching that around here for awhile... trying telling it to some of the other loonies around here.

[wenshu]

Of course some of those pictures look more like the Kama sutra than MA, LOL !

and BJJ doesn't?

[EarthDragon]

dragon

been preaching that around here for awhile... trying telling it to some of the other loonies around here

.

I dont think anyone has argued differently, but when you put down TCMA on a TCMA board and boost up MMA on a non MMA board as the be all and end all of fighting is where your going to get the rebuttles

[Iron_Eagle_76]

Grappling, older than the hills on grannies chest and twice as dusty !!

Of course some of those pictures look more like the Kama sutra than MA, LOL !

I was thinking the same thing. Is it possible they got the two mixed up.

[mooyingmantis]

The Chinese NEVER developed a comprehensive curriculum on the ground. period. Just because they shared a few common holds, submissions and what not means nothing.

No disagreement here. However you leave out one vital fact:

Most styles of jujutsu didn't develop much of a ground game either. It wasn't practical. The idea in jujutsu was to throw the opponent in such a way that they were injured or killed when they hit the ground. That gave tori the opportunity to pull his dagger and end uke's life. Rolling around on the ground fighting was not commonly adopted until the Empire was at peace and jujutsu, like other Japanese arts, became more sport than combat oriented. Eve today, few traditional styles of jujutsu incorporate a ground game.
So it is not unusual that the Chinese arts had the same mentality.

Jujutsu should not be interpreted through BJJ. BJJ is based on Judo, not traditional jujutsu. BJJ has little in common with traditional jujutsu.

CMA should not be judged based on modern sporting ideas. It wasn't designed for sport, though some arts have chosen to evolve that way.

[dirtyrat]

Also add to the fact that blades were widely used back when. If you live in those times, most likely you will be spending most of your training time to develop skills that address weapons use.

[mooyingmantis]

Also add to the fact that blades were widely used back when. If you live in those times, most likely you will be spending most of your training time to develop skills that address weapons use.

Absolutely!

[EarthDragon]

I have heard it said in Chinese cirlces that to fight on the ground is comparable to dogs fighting in the dirt.

[Three Harmonies]

Richard,
Well... you are slightly correct, and I am in no mood to argue. Brazilian Jiu (notice the spelling) Jitsu is based off of the old school Judo (not currently what you see) which was in fact old school Ju Jitsu.

Agreed, going to the ground deliberately with weapons certainly is not a bright idea. But then again, one should be prepared if such a situation occurs, no!?

The Chinese have never developed a comprehensive ground system because of cultural stigma, bias, and ignorance. I too have heard it preached that rolling on the ground is akin to a dog, something looked down upon in Chinese culture.

Funny thing is...now that money can be made off of BJJ, the Chinese are jumping all over it

JAB

[dirtyrat]

Certainly no one can argue against the value of learning groundfighting skills (well they can but in the end they're stupid), but who really knows why the Chinese never develop ground fighting. The subject of violence is a huge one and there are so many different combat skills out there. Perhaps they just decided to focus on what they thought was necessary at the time and excel at that. My Chinese friends seem to be a practical lot in general. Some don't see why they should learn martial arts (other than for recreational purposes) when you can buy a gun!

[Jimbo]

Also add to the fact that blades were widely used back when. If you live in those times, most likely you will be spending most of your training time to develop skills that address weapons use.

True. It's my understanding that the various jujutsu skills were originally intended as backup methods for when the samurai lost his weapon or ended up in close quarters with the enemy, and needed a quick method to dispatch him, or get to another weapon. It was not the main focus of a samurai's training. Also, since samurai wore body armor, most striking/kicking would not have been so effective, but arm bars/breaks, chokes, etc., would have been just as effective if the fight went to the ground against a single enemy.