kenpo biting the big one

[jutsow]

i cant be the only one here who is disgusted with kenpo/kempo. i have in the past stated my disgust in kenpo/ kempo and been blasted for it but i refuse to believe that i am the only kung fu person on this site who doesn't become phisicaly ill at the mere mention of kenpo/kempo.

kenpo/kempo is at best a cheap and shoddy rip off of real KUNG FU[not wushu witch is 30 times worse than kenpo/kempo].

just my humble opinion. the one, the only, the incredibly insignificant JUTSOW.....oops i mean JUT SOW or is it JUTSOW, as if it really matters.
oh yea , thats right. i said it jut sow. after your done crying into your pillow you can get a life and get over it. :(

[Julian Dale]

I understand that there are two schools of Kenpo, the er ..american version and the true monastic japanese version.

To which are you slating

The japanese monks were of some competance from my understanding - but are in no way linked to the ..er ..american version ??

[MASTERMAN]

Jutsow,

It is good to have freedom of opinion. But with maturity let's hope you learn that a MA style should not be judged by a few shallow practitioners of a style.

Anyone on this Forum has seen bad or weak MA people, but you can't honestly condemn an entire style. Grow up.

You Have The Power,

Dave S :rolleyes:

[Lucky Red]

i think most Styles have the same Potential
to be as good as any other style

it is not the Style it is How you train and How
Much you Train

.........,,,,,,,, Spread it Your self

[JWTAYLOR]

The last time I asked this, I didn't get a real answer, other than you saying that you hadn't seen much kenpo. Which pretty much discounted every thing you've said so far. It's pretty stupid to slag an art and claim ignorance of it in the same sentence.

So, exactly what/who have you seen to give you this opinion? What is it about kenpo don't you like?

BTW, what and where do you practice?

JWT

If you pr!ck us, do we not bleed? If you poison us, do we not die? And if you wrong us, shall we not revenge? If we are like you in the rest, we will resemble you in that the villany you teach me, I will execute, and it shall go hard but I will better the instruction. MOV

[Ironpig]

There certainly is a great deal of commercialism in this style, but I have to disagree.

Kenpo/kempo in the united states is a young art with virtually all branches coming from a single source in Hawaii: James Mitose.

Not a single person I have had the pleasure or torture to work out with when I practiced the style disagreed on that point or that he was legitimate.

There are also styles of Okinawan Kempo that have little to do with "american kempo".

There are many frauds in the martial world, both in china and in the united states. It is just easier to see them when they practice down the street.

There are many excellent practitioners of Kempo in the united states, they just don't dance around in gold lame' gi's like some choose to do.

I think you would be better served concentrating on your training rather than slamming what will probably die out on its own anyway.

Just a few pennies from a pig.....

IronPig

[MonkeySlap Too]

I'd like to agree, but I cannot. I like the Shorinji Kenpo guys, and despite his mumbo jumbo I am really impressed by Bruce Juchnik. I think Kenpo, because of its 'openess' results in many really famous and really poor methods.

But there are some gems out there.

I am a big beleiver in luck. The more I work, the more luck I have.

[Terry]

Jutsow - you may want to check out <A HREF="http://www.kempofaq.homepage.com" TARGET="_blank">www.kempofaq.homepage.com</A> which is a very informative site about various styles of Kempo/Kenpo. This way you may develop a more informed oppinion about Kempo/Kenpo.

[NorthernMantis]

I too am disgusted with kenpo. I apologize to the kenpo people out there but what I saw was horrible.You should have seen it.A couple of moths ago I had gone to Colombia for vacation and I saw this style called “white tiger”.I didn’t pay much attention to it but my friend who trains in it, they call it chaolin instead of shaolin , insisted that I go watch her class.I’ll tell you straight out what I saw was atrocious.It looked similar to the vids on the shaolin-do thread but it was more karate like combined with a weak type of boxing and tae kwon do kicks. Before I go on let me tell you what I noticed about this place that jut didn’t seem right.On the front wall I saw the words wushu/kung fu and Japanese swords hung on the sidewalls. As I heard conversations between the students they referred to chi as ki even though they practice chi kung.Also the uniforms were being called kimonos and the pants were extremely huge.They wore no shoes at all and used different colored sashes for rank when the teacher wore a black belt! After questioning the teacher or should I say the “si tai” of the school many times he turned his face and said it was a style called soun kempo (sp?). Then he changes his story and says it’s a “chaolin” style called white tiger,that his master is from the U.S.A and that his master is from Puerto rico.They have a few kempo schools there, not to mention the the fake eagle claw guy that I met from there a while ago but that is a different story.

Note:this was one of the few kenpo systems that I saw over there.

I watched the class and made me want to run in disgust. There was not a basic horse stance amongst them.Their butts stuck out and their feet were pointed 45 degrees or more outward. The hill climbing horse/bow stance hurt my eyes by just looking at it. The back foot was facing 90 degrees and the front foot was facing straightforward. They put all their weight on the cat stance.I don’t even want to mention what else I saw.

The forms were even worse.They held their fist in front of them like boxers and not once even in the basic from did they hold their fists by heir waist, something that is even done in karate.What I saw was not kung fu, not fluent but similar to karate. They jerked after some moves like karate and when they punched they leaned forward and the hill climbing/bow stance went from the back foot being flat to standing on the ball with all the weight in the front. Then the instructor told everyone how southern styles do more kicking and northern styles do more fists. Get this their shirt said Northern Shaolin.

Later on I saw them go to a tournament and for the masters demonstration the same teacher goes and does a form called chimmy chuan!Not only that but he yells it out getting louder and louder.He comes out in a black karate uniform barefoot as usual and starts acting like he is possesed.At this moment I can’t control myself as I begin to smile and giggle.He looks at at the crowd puts his arms straight down like in karate except his hands are open and starts saying out loud “I am john hairo I don’t what,black belt of the shaolin system,the master is Dr. osorio campo”he is yelling at this moment and then says “I beg you to give me permission to do the chaolin form named ..” and he yells the hardest at the top of his lungs “chiiiiimmyyyyyy chuaaaannnn!!!”.Not only that he later does a form called shaolin cha wa ching.He does the same thing thing here but at the end he takes the staff and drives it into the ground and yells the loudest way I have ever heard staying in a fixed stance for about 5 seconds like he has the worst constipation ever.

Oh and the chi kung. A local amateur tv station did an interview on them and I managed to see a chi kung demonstration.An instructor takes out a KATANA SWORDand says “yes this is one of the many weapons we teach in SHAOLIN”Then another guy takes of his shirt arches his back and puts what looked like a pre-cut potato on his beer belly.So the main man takes the Japanese sword and lightly chops the potato and the lady who was interviewing him was left in astnishment.At this point I was churning like I had a bad case of diarrhea from the embarrassment for them and was ready to pass out.

Then again what I saw could be a rip off verion of kempo.No ofense to the kenpo people but that is what I saw.

"Always be ready"

[This message was edited by NorthernMantis on 01-05-01 at 01:00 PM.]

[Taomonkey]

Its not that kenpo sucks, real kenpo is an excellent martial art, to this day I am in awe of Mr Parker and his abilities. Its just that most of the hacks out there are using the word kenpo or kempo. I'm sure every town out there has had some schmoe with a wall full of certificates and at least 7 blackbelts proclaim his kempo the greatest with direct lineage to Sholin. Judge the instructor and his teachings, but please do not lump all kenpo practioners into the same basket. Just remember to beware of "soke's" and those with 7th degrees and higher with the majority of their certificates dated within 5 years of each other. Heck just look in BB mag and int ehback you can get your very own kempo Black Belt. Just because there are frauds out there doesnt mean everyone is. and besides they usually only last a few years anyway, or at least untill a student finds them watching a MA video right before class to firgure out what to show that night.
:rolleyes:

[JWTAYLOR]

No offense taken.
But that's not kenpo. They are just bogarting the name.

I've definately seen equally rediculous Tai Chi Chuan practitioners. First year students refering to how their instructor teaches them to "see the chi flowing around the other person's body". And that their form is at least 6,000 years old. But that doesn't mean TTC sucks. It just means they have no idea what it is.


For fu(ks sake people, can you imagine how many kung fu forms we would have to throw out if we judged them all by every shool that used the word "Shaolin" in it's name?
JWT

[Kong Jianshen]

Northern Mantis, that was the funniest story I heard in a long time.. I am still laughing :) haha I love the 5-second constipation stance!

Always seeking to learn,
Kong Jianshen
Humble disciple of the ancient Boxing Arts

[MonkeySlap Too]

Yeah Northern Mantis, I have seen those kinda monkeys too, but CMA is full of them too.

Lets get back to generalizing about TKD - at least there we can be pretty sure the stuff doesn't work unless your opponent is slow, stupid and unsophisticated.

I am a big beleiver in luck. The more I work, the more luck I have.

[MonkeySlap Too]

Wheee, just having fun. Sorry TKD guys n gals.

I am a big beleiver in luck. The more I work, the more luck I have.

[Terry]

NorthernMantis - my 16 yrs old son has a black belt in Shaolin Kempo Karate and your descriptions of what you saw in Columbia sounds nothing like the training that my son has. It sounds more like a MAJOR rip-off or a miss-labeling of their style at best.