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Thread: kenpo biting the big one

  1. #16
    Sam Wiley Guest
    I don't see why people pick on Kenpo so much. I fought a guy once who said he used to practice Kenpo. I don't know which style. But he was pretty good. We ended up calling the fight a draw. He also had a pretty strong jumping snap kick (or whatever it's called). And he put just as much intent into the stuff I saw as any good Gung Fu stylist.

    *********
    "To enter is to be born, to retreat is to die."
    -An Old Taijiquan Saying

  2. #17
    MonkeySlap Too Guest

    Hmm

    I think some of the guff comes from things like 'Shaolin Kenpo' which shows very little understanding of cultural sensitivities as well some of the obviously 'made up' 'kung fu' you see in some kenpo schools.

    The other thing is the line 'you were only showing me something that was in my art already, I just hadn't discovered it yet.' Yeah, right. A Kenpo guy fed me that line as I was teaching him how to use an esoteric piece of equipment. So I left him to figure out how to use it himself. After all, the knowledge is in his art, right? HAH!!

    But not all Kenpo guys are bad eggs. Most of the good ones realize what they are doing is an American hybrid art and are proud of it. The deluded ones think they are doing CMA or even an improvement on CMA.

    But remember, there are a lot of CMA frauds out there as well. CMA has had a bad rep also. Ah, for the days of the Lei Tai challenge or the Pan Lima... :eek:

    I am a big beleiver in luck. The more I work, the more luck I have.

  3. #18
    HuangKaiVun Guest
    jutsow and northernmantis, REAL kempo stylists are very hard to beat.

    Imagine being on the receiving end of Jeff Speakman's ("The Perfect Weapon") combinations? Even though he does for the movies, his skill is obvious to those who know true martial arts power.

    The guys I've seen out of Speakman's lineage (American kempo) are VERY VERY tough.

  4. #19
    Knifefighter Guest
    MonkeySlap Too:
    What style(s) do you train?

  5. #20
    Ironpig Guest

    hmmm

    I found this thread to cause great anger in me.

    I have tried over the last eight years to give up the anger from the emotional and physical abuse that I recieved from a "kempo" system.

    I am suprised to feel the rage build in me again.

    I am one of the people who have been lied to and swindled of money by a "kempo" system. The grandmaster of this system wears gold lame' and claims shaolin heritage.

    I wasted four years and a little more trying to learn this system. I found good Kempo people to move on to when I could no longer take the verbal and mental abuse. I lost connection with parts of my family who were also practicing with me. I lost the trust of my family who thought I must have been in the wrong when I left because some of the family stayed. It took six years for the holes in my family to heal.

    When I say I have seen the best and worst Kempo has to offer, I am totally sincere. There are very good honest Kempo people out there. There are also egomainiacs who have passable skill passing themselves off as grandmasters of ancient chinese skills while wearing japanese clothing. It seems really silly in retrospect.

    Parker/tracy/jutchnik Kenpo/kempo tend to be very good. Most of the other systems are splinter organizations of the previous mentioned three teachers.

    I have little enough contact with the Okinawa based Kempo, they always seemed sincere and skillful.

    I have a tremendous amount of respect for the friends I have in the Kempo systems I left behind, they are really sincere in their study. I also have to say they always look uncomfortable when I point out that they have to go outside their system to hear an honest word or learn realistic technique.

    This is a CHINESE MARTIAL ARTS discussion board, Kempo has NO relation within 600 - 800 years to chinese arts, Kempo is a JAPANESE art that was influenced prior to 1500 by chinese arts.

    It just underlines the maxim: "a good teacher with an honest heart is worth their weight in gold"

    Not gold Lame'

    Just a rant from a pig..........

    IronPig

  6. #21
    Tigerdragon Guest

    Real Kenpo is a good art

    I am a Kenpo practioner. I love Kenpo, but also love martial arts in general. There is no reason to slam any true art. They all have their merits in one way or another. Some may be poor for the street, but may be good for your physical well being. Others may be exactly the opposite. Anyway, back to the topic:

    Unfortunately there are more frauds in Kenpo then any other style in North and Central America. After the death of Mr. Parker the number of poor instructors and self made masters in American Kenpo doubled. These were people just out to use the name to make a buck and boost their own egos. I urge you not to base your oppinion on what you see in a single studio. Especially if you are not positive of the liniage. Check out a real I.K.K.A. afiliated school to see what true Ed Parker American Kenpo is like. Also there is a somewhat new version of American Kenpo developed by Mr. Paul Mills, one of Mr. Parkers personal students. He now heads the A.K.K.I. and it is the style I now study. I have no problem with people disliking Kenpo. Everyone is entitled to their own oppinion. But I would just like that people base their oppinions on the true form of Kenpo, not the frauds that are out there.
    Respectfully,
    Eric

    Assumption is the mother of tragedy. Just keep and open mind, be ready, and go full force.

  7. #22
    Tora Guest
    test

  8. #23
    Tora Guest
    I don’t post around here very much anymore, largely because I got sick of “style wars.” Yes I have seen bad kempo. In my town you can’t go 3 blocks without hitting a kempo studio. Things IMO degenerated heavily after Ed Parkers death. People who were wearing a brown belt a few weeks before his death were suddenly black belts. Some of the locals seem to gain a couple of dan rankings every six months. Fraud is everywhere in the martial arts. I also have seen a good kempo school. They exist, but like ALL arts now, they are rare. I have trained longer than I care to admit. I would call over 95% of what I see out there as out and out BS. It is everywhere and it is in ALL the arts. BJJ hasn’t been around very long, but people with fraudulent lineage teaching BJJ for $$ are out there now and getting more prevalent every day. Buyer beware.

    And for the CMA guys getting high and mighty about Kempo…LO ****ing L!! In a lot of circles CMA is considered a low power, flowery non functional BS art. I personally believe there is value in it if you can get to the right people. (not an easy task) But just know that for every finger you point at someone else laughingly there are four pointing back at you. Go train.

  9. #24
    humblefist Guest

    Re: Northern Mantis---Jutsow

    Poor you...the pain your eyes have seen...the pain...your stomach felt, keeping from laughing your guts out.

    Disturbingly more is when some of his students move on to become "Master Sifu Sensei..." and create more of the "art".

    Sorry to say that CMA is losing it's tradition and strength. As this and future generations come along, the less they can bring to the table, mainly because the true essence of CMA will be lost. CMA cannot be whole without the essence/philosophy, forms will not do it. Today, practioners do not have the time to study under someone as they did in generations past. I, too am a culprit to this. Only a few will possess this knowledge and our only hope is not to practice the physical part, but to take time and talk to our teachers. Bruce Lee knew of this and began to evolve the art from his philosophy and understanding of martial arts, not just WC, Crane, etc... , he did this like a true artist, whether its martial, sculpting, drawing, painting, etc.....

    Peace

  10. #25
    WongFeHung Guest
    I have had the good fortune and the bad fortune to have studied and taught both 'old style' (1960's EP/Tracy) and "shaolin Kempo' franchise style. (hey, we all did some things we're not proud of, and I learned how to run a school(actually, how not to) on someone else's money) Old school comes more from Chow Kwai-Sun, who learned from his father Chow Hoon, and Chinese influence, is hard hitting, fluid, and brutal,and is very much like Hung-Ga applications,sans forms. The franchise style was totally bogus-Same gold-lame' Grandmaster. Animal techniques completely made up-check this out, they said, "any three kicks in a row is a Dragon technique" and "the white snow leopard uses his forearms and elbows" -****, I only wish I could show some of this dribble. They did what they called Pinan forms-only they did them kinda backwards, and their other made up forms were called "Ancient Chinese Kata number one, two, etc" their stances were completely lacking in any type of foundation, their knowledge of applied physiology, structure,connection, ging, was nonexistant. I had started as a teen in Bak Siu Lum,some Bak Mei,Wing Chun, and Tang Soo Do, then Old school Kenpo, and while I was working at this franchise style, I was already imersed in Hung Kuen. So here I was teaching wannabes wearing karate-kid headbands,and a patch for each animal plastered all over their gis,this garbage and my inner voice was screaming at me "NO! NO! NO!" It took a 12 yr old kid to wake me the $%*@ up, when at a 'special shaolin training seminar " with 'the Master" we were led through a shaolin chi kung set,and when the entire gymnasium full of followers were doing these ridiculous movements and hissing noises, this kid looks up at me and sez, "There are grown men doing this" I looked down at him and said' "we're outta here-now," well, 15 yrs later, it still makes me shudder.-But, old Kenpo, when done right, is good stuff, trouble is, now kenpo has a bad name due to these guys and everyone who left them and started offshoots of this bogus stuff. BTW Ralph Castro-who studied under Chow, also calls his art Shaolin Kenpo-don't confuse this with the new franchise styles.

  11. #26
    MASTERMAN Guest

    I AGREE WITH TENTIGERS AND THOSE WHO HAVE EXPERIENCED TRADITIONAL KENPO!

    Please don't judge Kenpo by recent wantabes. Since Parkers death there has been alot of BS out there.

    Traditional Kenpo is excellent. If in doubt come work out with me in Minnesota. You will see what the System is about... The system has roots in Shaolin but is more japanese in flavor.

    Rapid fire application is our trademark!

    You have The Power,

    DaveS :)

  12. #27
    NorthernMantis Guest

    You might be right

    Terry,Jon Wayne Taylor

    Yeah it might have been a really bad rip off of kempo.A couple of experinces like that should not have chnaged my mind in that way.I'm sorry for the post I apologize.What went through my mind when I wrote about my experience I'll never know.

    Yeah kung fu has those people has the same problem so I guess everyone does also.

    At least you people admit it's kempo and are proud of it.I had to drag it out of those people by asking annoying questions like "how come you have belts?I'snt actually pronounced sifu?"

    I think I do have that masters demonstration with those fake kempo stylists somewhere but I think one of my brothers might have taped over it though.

    "Always be ready"

  13. #28
    rogue Guest

    What's wrong with gold lame?

    There is only one Kempo and it's Shoalin Karate Kempo and only one master and that's Grandmaster Freddie Vallari.

    Please line up to the left in single file so I may dispatch all you unbelievers.

    Thank you

    :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :eek: **** I hurt myself again doing that.

  14. #29
    NorthernMantis Guest
    <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> But not all Kenpo guys are bad eggs. Most of the good ones realize what they are doing is an American hybrid art and are proud of it. The deluded ones think they are doing CMA or even an improvement on CMA.[/quote]

    I agree.I think that is what the problem is with them.Like I said before at least some of the people on this forum are proud of to be in kenpo.It's the few deluded ones who think they have the true version of chinse martial arts(shaolin-do for example) that mess up things for everyone else.You have to be proud of your style no matter what it is.


    One more thing when they saw my forms one time when I was practicing at the park(big mistake) they disregarded them as wu shu since it was more fluent and thought my system was a fake.

    "Always be ready"

  15. #30
    NorthernMantis Guest
    <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> And for the CMA guys getting high and mighty about Kempo…LO ****ing L!! In a lot of circles CMA is considered a low power, flowery non functional BS art.[/quote]

    Tora not to get offended but that flowery bs art is the art same that influenced kempo and many japanese styles so they're laughing at themselves at the same time.

    I understand where you're coming from though and I'll admit it right now but my kung fu sucks(not the style but my skills).I also admit that I might have jumped to the wrong conclusions and started making too quick of a judgement when I shouldn't have.

    Don't get me wrong though I just posted my experience.I hope we didn't start on the wrong foot we're all frineds here. :)

    "Always be ready"

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