This thread is way too good to be kept on the internal martial arts forum...

[Knifefighter]

There are individuals within the MA community that have a deep understanding of human movement, which means they can SEEMINGLY manipulate others magically.
My Taiji teacher is like this. To touch hands with him you'd swear he has no bones in his body. He can throw you across the room with seemingly no effort. But it's because he understands where and when to apply the right pressure. And he's developed the ability to listen to your body with his own, while hiding his own intentions.

Funny how there is zero evidence of any of these so called MA "masters" ever effortlessly manipulating a combat athlete who trains and competes in the sport model.

This is just a much hokum as the other cr@p.

[MartialDev]

So what is my opinion here? I believe that MysteriousPower actually had the balls to call out something that seemed extremely fishy and possibly fraudulent.

Waitaminute. He makes baseless claims while hiding behind a screen name, and when he is offered the chance to experience the skill in person, FOR FREE, then he can't manage it.

Man, those aren't even baby balls.

I brought up Dean Radin because he has already proven, beyond the shadow of a statistical doubt, some of these skills that most people continue to believe are impossible. But it is hard for people to accept, so they usually ignore it or pretend it is "non-sensical."

P.S. Kumar also wrote about magnetic skills in one of his books. He is well known, or at least he was at one time, for his rough handling of bigmouths and nonbelievers. I don't mean to be signing him up for a fight here, but anyone who gets tired of playing the badass behind closed doors should know they have options, on both coasts.

[MartialDev]

If you're making claims that you can heat up objects without touching them, they you're violating everything we know about how the world works...through science.

Your scientific knowledge is five thousand years out of date.

Let me initiate you into THE SECRET OF FIRE.

It burns without touching!

(For more complete world knowledge, please look up heat transfer in wikipedia. This has been a public service announcement.)

[MysteriousPower]

Waitaminute. He makes baseless claims while hiding behind a screen name, and when he is offered the chance to experience the skill in person, FOR FREE, then he can't manage it.

Man, those aren't even baby balls.

I brought up Dean Radin because he has already proven, beyond the shadow of a statistical doubt, some of these skills that most people continue to believe are impossible. But it is hard for people to accept, so they usually ignore it or pretend it is "non-sensical."

P.S. Kumar also wrote about magnetic skills in one of his books. He is well known, or at least he was at one time, for his rough handling of bigmouths and nonbelievers. I don't mean to be signing him up for a fight here, but anyone who gets tired of playing the badass behind closed doors should know they have options, on both coasts.

Kumar wrote a lot of qi hugging stuff and is pushing it to the max these days to make a living. He is doing it mostly because he is too old and crippled to be taken seriously as a fighter now. BUT back then he was a fighter and from what I hear a big d-bag to people like you. You would make a qi claim and he would kick your a$$. He was a big, rough, mofo who studied other styles before settling into the internal mumbo gumbo. He was an a$$ kicker because that is who he was not due to walking around in circles. The issue with him is more of a time period issue. The tournaments he fought in had contestants that did not train contact the way modern mma does. How would he have faired today? That would be an interesting topic.

[Knifefighter]

Waitaminute. He makes baseless claims while hiding behind a screen name, and when he is offered the chance to experience the skill in person, FOR FREE, then he can't manage it.

Man, those aren't even baby balls.

I brought up Dean Radin because he has already proven, beyond the shadow of a statistical doubt, some of these skills that most people continue to believe are impossible. But it is hard for people to accept, so they usually ignore it or pretend it is "non-sensical."

P.S. Kumar also wrote about magnetic skills in one of his books. He is well known, or at least he was at one time, for his rough handling of bigmouths and nonbelievers. I don't mean to be signing him up for a fight here, but anyone who gets tired of playing the badass behind closed doors should know they have options, on both coasts.

Are you saying you know people on the west coast who would be willing to demonstrate these body manipulation abilities against resisting opponents who are around their own weight?

[MysteriousPower]

I want to give my opinion from a purely neutral perspective. That is, I am on amicable terms with almost everyone here but nobody is a "close-friend" or anything of that. I have no agendas to make anyone look good or bad.

So what is my opinion here? I believe that MysteriousPower actually had the balls to call out something that seemed extremely fishy and possibly fraudulent. Maybe this is a better thread for Bullshido, where it is much more likely that someone WILL TAKE THE INVITATION AND GO.

Now, while Dale and I do not really talk and I don't know him very well he has always been a very friendly individual to me and I have no desire to make his teacher look bad in any way. But as a martial artist we have to look at everything honestly.

Many people on this forum, including Sanjuro, Ten Tigers and other TCMA guys claim they want to see the "BS" within kung fu die, more or less. I am not putting words into other people's mouths so if they disagree with me, feel free to correct. Everytime there is a video of some Chinese charlatan with his death touch, qi-blasts, magical powers, etc.... these guys, and MYSELF, ridicule, laugh at and point out how it is all so FULL OF SH1T, and is only contributing to the demise and disintegration of true TCMA, with the essence for actual combat.

The only logical conclusion I can make regarding Sifu Painter's seminar is that the CLAIMS are rooted in mysticism and psuedo-science, as well as smelling like something fishy, not-true, or possible fraudulent. SPECIFICALLY referring to this line:



1. Manipulation of movement with the slightest touch? Perhaps feasible, but certainly not IMPOSSIBLE, I should say. Maybe there is some insane skill. But still, probably not, but let's give the benefit of the doubt.

2. Manipulation of movement WITHOUT touching? Now, here is 100% mysticism and falsehood in my honest opinion. You cannot control someone from even millimeters away WITHOUT PHYSICAL TOUCH.

3. Manipulation of the nervous system? I'm not even sure what things means but at face value it sounds like psuedo-science and not something very real. For years now we have laughed off and ridiculed the people who claim to have "qi-control powers" or other similar, extraordinary feats. Things extends to "psychological mind control, mind manipulation, no-touch knockouts, etc."

I understand that some are good friends with Sifu Dale Dugas and even I, consider him a friend. However, we have to be completely open and honest in terms of questioning the validity of everything presented forth that seems rather fraudulent in nature. We CANNOT hold a double-standard of not questioning our friends, and only questioning the actions of those we don't know or don't care about.

As for me, as for my opinion. These claims set by Sifu Painter seems like bullshido mostly because of how the statements/claims were written. Perhaps he meant them in another way, but that I cannot say. He, Dale, or any affiliated person will have to speak about that.

Tell me, are these the skills that the seminar claims will be teaching? Or something similar to this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1XI8JwLUako

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d7hyO...eature=related

Now compare the second video to this, as I believe these feats look similar:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pdrzBL2dHMI

I quoted the while thing. Everyone get over it.

Violent designs,

I cannot believe what I am reading! You should be put to death. I agree with Violent designs. And I forgive him for adding choy li fut threads to the 8 thousand others in the southern kung fu forum.

[Knifefighter]

Your scientific knowledge is five thousand years out of date.

Let me initiate you into THE SECRET OF FIRE.

It burns without touching!

(For more complete world knowledge, please look up heat transfer in wikipedia. This has been a public service announcement.)

If his body was producing temperatures of 200 degrees F, the proteins in his body would have denatured far before that.

[MysteriousPower]

Guys, I have to make an apology here.

I just reread the advertisement for Dale's seminar and I missed an important part. Can control an opponent WITHOUT even touching him? I apologize for not being rude enough! How the heck did I forget that morsel of information? I wish I could manipulate my palm to slap my forehead like they will teach in this seminar.

Now nothing will stop my tirade. Dale, why don't you just use the force and make me stop typing posts? While you are at it can you manipulate Osama Bin Laden to cone out of his cave and turn himself in? The US government is offering millions for his capture. You would not have to teach small timers anymore. How come you do not want to be a millionaire?

I feel my second wind coming. I was about to let this thread go like a child going off to college wherever the wind and alcohol take him. But now I see that my son needs more direction. You could teach your skills to prostitutes. Then would definitely be clean then because they could do everything from across the room.

[Violent Designs]

Guys, I have to make an apology here.

I just reread the advertisement for Dale's seminar and I missed an important part. Can control an opponent WITHOUT even touching him? I apologize for not being rude enough! How the heck did I forget that morsel of information? I wish I could manipulate my palm to slap my forehead like they will teach in this seminar.

Now nothing will stop my tirade. Dale, why don't you just use the force and make me stop typing posts? While you are at it can you manipulate Osama Bin Laden to cone out of his cave and turn himself in? The US government is offering millions for his capture. You would not have to teach small timers anymore. How come you do not want to be a millionaire?

I feel my second wind coming. I was about to let this thread go like a child going off to college wherever the wind and alcohol take him. But now I see that my son needs more direction. You could teach your skills to prostitutes. Then would definitely be clean then because they could do everything from across the room.

If you want to investigate the credibility of the subject matter, I advise you to NOT drag yourself down to the level of personal attacks and instigating a flame war.

The point is to be logical and reasonable, not to use character assassination...

[Knifefighter]

Guys, I have to make an apology here.

I just reread the advertisement for Dale's seminar and I missed an important part. Can control an opponent WITHOUT even touching him? I apologize for not being rude enough! How the heck did I forget that morsel of information? I wish I could manipulate my palm to slap my forehead like they will teach in this seminar. .

I think we established they are just going to make people flinch. They simply didn't know how to describe the flinch response, that's all.

We've got it all straightened out now.

[MysteriousPower]

If you want to investigate the credibility of the subject matter, I advise you to NOT drag yourself down to the level of personal attacks and instigating a flame war.

The point is to be logical and reasonable, not to use character assassination...

You are right. You and knifefighter are so refined in your responses.

I will refrain from the type of sarcastic humor that will lead to hurt feelings. There is no reason for it just like there is no reason to degrade Kung fu with non-touch nonsense.

[Lucas]

you can SOMETIMES make SOME people move without touching them. you usually have to touch them a few times first, often in the form of very hard strikes that hurt alot. then you can maneuver them with intent and movment, via fear and intimidation.

does that count?

youtube a few decent fighters, any will do, and you have your proof.

[Knifefighter]

you can SOMETIMES make SOME people move without touching them. you usually have to touch them a few times first, often in the form of very hard strikes that hurt alot. then you can maneuver them with intent and movment, via fear and intimidation.

does that count?

youtube a few decent fighters, any will do, and you have your proof.

Yeah, like I said, I think we established that is what they will be doing.

Our work is done here.

[TenTigers]

I think we established they are just going to make people flinch. They simply didn't know how to describe the flinch response, that's all.

We've got it all straightened out now.

I think you are close with that, Dale. It seems that he was leading him. In NLP you mirror the person in order to get a rapport with him. A test is to do a shift, meaning you do a different move, and he will follow your lead. Then you have a link. I believe that is akin to what is going on in the first video.

[MartialDev]

Kumar wrote a lot of qi hugging stuff and is pushing it to the max these days to make a living. He is doing it mostly because he is too old and crippled to be taken seriously as a fighter now. BUT back then he was a fighter and from what I hear a big d-bag to people like you. You would make a qi claim and he would kick your a$$. He was a big, rough, mofo who studied other styles before settling into the internal mumbo gumbo. He was an a$$ kicker because that is who he was not due to walking around in circles. The issue with him is more of a time period issue. The tournaments he fought in had contestants that did not train contact the way modern mma does. How would he have faired today? That would be an interesting topic.

Truly, there is nothing you won't pretend to know. A dubious and mysterious power indeed.

I shall refrain from further comment, and pray for all our sakes that somehow you will do the same.