Bajiquan

[SPJ]

1. yes. xiao jia is based on liang yi ding posture

it focuses on horizontal power or longitudinal power and movements (heng xiang and zhong xiang).

2. on top of up and down power (xia cheng or cheng zui jin).

3. there is also cross power or shi zi jin.

4. small entanglement or xiao chan and large entanglement or da chan (circles).

5. there are circles inside and outside of square/boxy structure.

6. there are relaxation (harnessing) and release power phases.

---

[SPJ]

my point is that there are also a lot throws in xiao jia

if you express powers as if they are all about strikes

that is not correct.

peace out.

[Water-quan]

I hate to break it to you but. . . bawang nailed it. That video is pretty cool but the main thing it has going for it is decent editing and a really cool setting for the filming. As actual traditional gongfu goes....lol. He's doing a pretty standard wushu version. The clip is labeled "Shaanxi Bajiquan". I live in Shaanxi. I'm pretty familiar with who's doing what out here.

I can go into specifics on what he's doing wrong from a practical perspective if you want. His movements are crisp and clean but mostly useless.

Oh yeah, unlike the rest of you practical minded heroes. At least he looks cool - that's easily ten steps better than 'sounding tough'.

[SPJ]

when tsunami hit Japan, we witness the destruction that the power of the nature could bring.

people find comfort in believing something greater would be in charge such as god.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3xfRP...eature=related

we admire the greatness of nature, we also know that human is just too small in the presence of nature.

scenes of china

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CireyeRo8q4

ba ji means extreme places in 8 directions or all directions

some like to define it as extreme uses of 8 body parts

ba ji is already greatest of the great

so the title great ba ji is like--

[Water-quan]

Oh noes, Kung Fu Panda has got the 10 step program to look cool!

But your perception about the general tone (hysterical?..fanatic?... something like that...) of the responses seems to have some merit.

Basically you got guys in the west training kung fu two or three nights a week who want to maintain the fantasy that somehow what they do is better than guys who train five hours a day in China.

They tell themselves that they focus on the practical side, and that's why guys from China look so much better, when the truth is, the guys from China just are better, by a ridiculously long way. Because they train more and have access to the best teachers.

Problem is, that doesn't mean any of it is 'practical' anyway- it just means that it's always funny to see the fatties and the people who can barely throw a punch falling over their guts to inisist that their total lack of athleticism, grace and skill is the fault of other people who train just to look good.

If I'm going to do something that doesn't work, I'dat least hope to get fit and look good doing it.

[Water-quan]

Here's a Baji set (small frame) that is both good looking and really f'ing effective:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YfgaxxySGSQ

Smooth, rooted, extremely powerful and all the moves make tactical sense.

*rolls eyes* - didn't you get the memo? You can't tell how effective something is by looking at somone punch thin air.

[Drake]

Basically you got guys in the west training kung fu two or three nights a week who want to maintain the fantasy that somehow what they do is better than guys who train five hours a day in China.

They tell themselves that they focus on the practical side, and that's why guys from China look so much better, when the truth is, the guys from China just are better, by a ridiculously long way. Because they train more and have access to the best teachers.

Problem is, that doesn't mean any of it is 'practical' anyway- it just means that it's always funny to see the fatties and the people who can barely throw a punch falling over their guts to inisist that their total lack of athleticism, grace and skill is the fault of other people who train just to look good.

If I'm going to do something that doesn't work, I'dat least hope to get fit and look good doing it.

It's not about the time spent training. It's about the QUALITY of the training. Haven't you ever seen Rocky IV? However, I don't think these guys are training all that efficiently either, so I agree with you in that context.

And yes, athleticism is key. Seems a good number of fatties seem to ignore key tenets of their arts, such as rules about fitness and nutrition. There are rules about nutrition and fitness, and it seems people turn a blind eye to them.

[Hardwork108]

.....You can't tell how effective something is by looking at somone punch thin air.

That is a great point to be kept in mind. Sometimes we do not see the power nor the particular "energies" and their effects by just watching forms.

[omarthefish]

*rolls eyes* - didn't you get the memo? You can't tell how effective something is by looking at somone punch thin air.

Guess I missed it.

But aside from the memo...

It's a stupid memo. You can tell a fair bit IF you actually have experience in what is being demoed. A professional boxing coach can tell a metric ton of stuff from watching a boxer shadowbox. At the very minimum, I can tell you that his movements match perfectly with everything I know from experience about how Bajiquan works. Unlike the video that started this thread, I can't really find anything to nitpick about.

Besides that point, there is also the fact that I have met up with at least one of his students and that there are plenty of clips of this guy teaching applications, throws, lots of good stuff. As a 10 year Baji disciple, I can tell you that, from every angle that I can analyze this guy (Lu Baochun) his Baji is world class.

Have you never appraised one of the old Japanese masters performance of Sanchin?

Yeah, the memo can kiss my ***

[SPJ]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JKUC4...eature=related

wushu ba ji.

[SPJ]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0912H...eature=related

elementary school ba ji.

[hungheikwan]

Another great thread! Special thanks to SPJ for the insights into Bajiquan. The two forms that I practice I got from Tony Yang, but I deeply love this style, and appreciate everyone's comments.

[KC Elbows]

Basically you got guys in the west training kung fu two or three nights a week who want to maintain the fantasy that somehow what they do is better than guys who train five hours a day in China.

They tell themselves that they focus on the practical side, and that's why guys from China look so much better, when the truth is, the guys from China just are better, by a ridiculously long way. Because they train more and have access to the best teachers.

Problem is, that doesn't mean any of it is 'practical' anyway- it just means that it's always funny to see the fatties and the people who can barely throw a punch falling over their guts to inisist that their total lack of athleticism, grace and skill is the fault of other people who train just to look good.

If I'm going to do something that doesn't work, I'dat least hope to get fit and look good doing it.

And you're experiences in China are...?

The main reason I ask is that in my time there, while the best teacher I met was great, most others were just as skilled as lifelong martial artists anywhere else.

[YouKnowWho]

When we talk about Baji, we have to mention 马英图(Ma Ying Tu).

http://tupian.hudong.com/a4_78_62_01...neirong_tupian

http://tupian.hudong.com/s/%E9%A9%AC...E/xgtupian/1/2

http://tupian.hudong.com/s/%E9%A9%AC...E/xgtupian/1/4

http://www.hudong.com/wiki/%E9%A9%AC%E8%8B%B1%E5%9B%BE

[kowloonboy]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UA9a977HzFg
Baji Quan / Bajiquan

Bājíquán (Traditional Chinese: 八極拳; Pinyin: Bājíquán; literally "eight extremes fist"; Japanese: 八極拳, Hakkyokuken) is a Chinese martial art that features explosive, short range power and is famous for its elbow strikes. It originated in Hebei Province of Northern China, but is also well-known in other places as well today, especially Taiwan.

Origins
Bajiquan was originally called Baziquan (巴子拳 or 鈀子拳; literally "rake fist"), due to the fact that when not striking, the fist is held loosely and slightly open, resembling a rake. However, the name was considered to be rather crude sounding in its native tongue, and so it was changed to the more pleasing Bajiquan. The term baji, which comes from the oldest book in China, the I Ching, signifies "an extension of all directions." In this case, it means "including everything" or "the universe."

Made famous in recent times by Li Shuwen (1864-1934), a fighter from Shandong province whose skill with a spear earned him the nickname "God of Spear Li." His most famous quote about fighting was, "I do not know what it's like to hit a man twice."[1] Certainly a bit of hyperbole, but it still speaks for the shocking power Baji training develops. Li Shuwen's most famous students include Huo Diange (bodyguard to Pu Yi, the last Emperor of China), Li Chenwu (bodyguard to Mao Zedong), and Liu Yunqiao (secret agent for the nationalist Kuomintang and instructor of the bodyguards of Chiang Kai Shek). Because of this, Bajiquan has come to be known as "The Bodyguard Style".

Bajiquan shares roots with another Hebei martial art, Piguazhang. It is said that Wu Zhong, the oldest traceable lineage holder in the Bajiquan lineage, taught both arts together as an integrated fighting system.[2] They then slowly split apart, only to be remarried by Li Shuwen in the late 18th to early 19th century. As a testament to the complementary nature of these two styles, there is a Chinese martial arts proverb that goes: "When pigua is added to baji, gods and demons will all be terrified. When baji is added to pigua, heroes will sigh knowing they are no match against it." (八極參劈掛，神鬼都害怕。劈掛參八極，英雄嘆莫及)[3]

Today, the lineage holder of Bajiquan in China is Wu Lianzhi. He is also the prototype of Akira Yuki of Virtua Fighter fame. Through more than 50 years of training, he collected much material and records which were passed down from generation to generation.

Features
The major features of this school of Chinese martial arts include elbow strikes, arm/fist bashes, hip checks, and strikes with the shoulder. All techniques are executed with a very distinctive form of short power, developed through rigorous training; in Chinese martial arts, Baji is famous for its very violent and fast movements. Strategically, Baji focuses on in-fighting, entering from a longer range with Baji's distinctive charging step and issuing power up close.

The essence of Bajiquan lies in jin, or power-issuing methods, particularly fajin (explosive power). The style contains a total of six types of jin, eight different ways to hit and several different principles of power usage. Unlike most western forms of martial arts which require swinging motion to create momentum, most of Bajiquan's moves utilise a one-hit push-strike from very close range. The bulk of the damage is dealt through the momentary acceleration that travels up from the waist to the limb and further magnified by the charging step known as zhen jiao.

The mechanics of jin are developed through many years of practice and Bajiquan is known for its particularly strenuous lower-body training and its emphasis on the horse stance.[4] Its horse stance is higher than that of typical Long Fist styles. Like other styles, there is also "the arrow-bow stance", "the one-leg stance", "the Xū stance", "the Pū stance", etc. There are eight different poses of hands, plus different types of breath and zhen jiao.

The forms of Baji are divided into Fists (non-weapon) and Weapons. In Fist, there are more than 20 different forms, including 12 Baji Small Structure Fists, Baji Black Tiger Fist, Baji Dan Zhai, Baji Dan Da/Dui Da, Baji Luo Han Gong, and Baji Si Lang Kuan. In Weapons, there are more than eight different kinds of weapon, including the very famous Liu He Big Qiang (spear), Liu He Flower Qiang (spear), Chun Yang Jian (sword), San Yin Dao (sabre), Xing Zhe Bang (staff), Pudao, and Chun Qiu Da Dao (long two-handed heavy blade, used by Generals sitting on their horses).

Influences
There may not be that many styles in kung fu, that resemble Baji Quan. Because the Baji style focuses on being more direct, simple and powerful; unlike other styles of Kung Fu, that always tend to show its beauty and power through its movement. Even so, there are some styles that have derived by using Baji Quan’s main principles or concepts, on how to hit your opponent.

"Bashi" (Eight postures)
"Bashi Gong" (Eight movements method)
"Bashi Chui" (Eight striking Forms)
"Shuang Bashi" (Double Eight Postures),
"Jingang Bashi" (Eight postures of the Buddha Guards.)
"Longxing Bashi" (Eight postures of the Dragon Style).
Many of these forms are also based or mixed with Luohan Quan(A Shaolin style). The term Bashi Pashi may also refer to Baji. But it can also be noted that Bashi is also a term used in the style of Xingyi Quan.

Anyone practice this style here?