Bajiquan

**Three Harmonies** · 10-20-2005, 11:34 PM

Very true!
Jake

**blackmantis** · 10-21-2005, 07:49 AM

Is Tongbei related or similar to Baji? Is Tongbei a Shaolin system?

**SPJ** · 10-21-2005, 08:00 AM

Tong Bei means extended back or arm.

There are many styles sharing the same name.

Yes, Shaolin has Tong Bi sets. Mantis has Tong Bei branch etc. There are also southern Tong Bi etc.

However, what I meant is the style made popular from the Bull or Niu street in Bei Jing. There are several styles. White Ape dating back to the warring states periods some 2500 years ago.

Tong Bei 24 hand sets were composed to comprise several related styles in Kuo Shu Guan in 1930's.

**gfx** · 10-21-2005, 10:49 PM

TongBei is a predecessor to Pigua. Pigua is considered a complimentary style to Baji. TongBei is not a shaolin style. Although Shaolin did absorb its methods into its system.

Oh yeah, it is "rake" not "rack", picky picky.

**blackmantis** · 10-22-2005, 02:58 AM

How do Pigua and Baji differ?

**count** · 10-22-2005, 05:52 AM

Originally Posted by blackmantis

How do Pigua and Baji differ?

Baji's main focus is on short too no range power. Explosive power from inside. Piqua is long power. Not necessarily long range power, but long power from a short distance. Piqua's power is more from whipping the spine as opposed to baji's compression and expansion of the spine. Where baji uses the body and elbows as primary weapons, Piqua starts with the palms to open you up and get inside. They are a perfect compliment to each other. As Jake said in the excellent post above, baji and piqua split 100's of years ago. Than the baji master, Li Shu Wen re-married them. Baji is a powerful system, but sometimes a bigger, stronger opponent has an advantage. Each are excellent systems on their own, but together, piqua is the "great equalizer".

**RAF** · 10-22-2005, 05:03 PM

Also the pigua incorporates a lot of hand training with regard to dog skin or bag usage. You can see some of this on Adam Hsu's tapes, however, palm or hand training is sort of a misnomer in that the strikes are nothing like those found in karate. The waist generates the strike through arm to the hand.

There is a little more to the baji/pigua training relationship and alternating training times. Personally I found the pigua a lot more areobic---they have double kicks, a lot of slapping the ground in a back bow stance and some single routine kicking not normally found in baji but I got to be clear here---we do have a double heel kicks in baji as a single moving exercizes and also very interesting side kick we term a scorpion kick the first is in da baji and the latter is in baji lian huan, the linking form). Hummm, I take back the areobic bit---its all "kick-your-ass" training.

**blackmantis** · 10-23-2005, 03:06 AM

It's really appreciated to have such an interesting insight- thank you!

It seems that Pigua is far more rare than Baji and that they are often taught together. The Wutan organisation in Taiwan seems to do a lot of Baji-does anyone know if they do Pigua too?

I didn't know that they had lots of kicks-I'd always assumed that they were very hand orientated systems. Anyway, thank you for being so insightful!

S

**count** · 10-23-2005, 03:32 AM

Wu Tan in Taiwan would be where my teacher learned his baji and piqua. RAF's teacher too. I don't know who is teaching in Taiwan now, but I'm guessing they have a program that includes piqua.

**RAF** · 10-23-2005, 05:16 AM

Blackmantis:

I don't know of anyone in Wutan(g) who teaches pigua zhang as a separate system, that is, if you walked in and said "all I want is pigua,"I don't think that would happen. However, you might get baji without any pigua, at least in the first year or so. However, I started pigua training exercises the first day I started with ;my teacher---we didn't know they were pigua, but that is what they were. Before we got any forms, we did a number of stationary and moving pigua postures and one type of breathig exercise.

I have seen, from the mainland, pigua systems that contain far more forms and weapons that is practiced at the Wutan(g). My guess is that everything in the pigua wutan(g) is solid basic training i.e. jiben gong.

There are schools on the mainland that teach baji without any pigua and they do just fine and there is pigua that does not have baji which also does just fine. Its like ordering steak, lobster, or "Turf & Surf"---it all tastes good!

I understand that Adam Hsu is teaching in Taiwan and also there is a general that Liu trained and he ist teaching baji and pigua---he has books and tapes out but they are all in Chinese and the baji tape has the goofy sound effects!

**SPJ** · 10-23-2005, 08:22 AM

Ba Ji and Pi Gua by itself is a complete style.

There are many open hand sets/forms and weapon sets.

Pi Gua has several styles or branches, too.

There were many new and good hand and weapon sets composed in the 1930' and early 40's in the Kuo Shu Guan era.

And some Tong Bei steps mixed with Pi Gua hand methods in hand and weapon sets.

Everything was interrupted by Japanese invasion and civil war between the communists and the nationalists.

Culture revolution persecuted a lot of TMA people for over a decade.

People had to practice in private and risking losing everything.

---

**Mortal1** · 10-25-2005, 10:33 AM

Anyone have any cool baji clips?

**omarthefish** · 11-03-2005, 06:27 AM

*ssssshhhhhh* don't tell anyone.

http://media.putfile.com/dabaji lol

. . .

**Aeturnal** · 02-13-2007, 01:56 AM

does anyone know about any good baji schools in nyc? also does anyone have any good info on its effectiveness or know of any recent fighters who have put it to good use...thanks

**Li Ma-Keh** · 02-25-2007, 12:45 PM

Hi,..I don't know of a teacher in NYC',..but, you can probably find that info.' and more by contacting Si-Fu Tony Yang ,(Master Yang Shu-Ton),from Canton,Ohio. Go to; www.wutangcenter.com He is very good at Ba-Ji Chwen! Li Ma-Keh

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