The basic WCK punch

[t_niehoff]

Terrence I love you and want to have your babies.

Then you should start by at least getting the spelling of my name correct.

[GlennR]

Ok, ill have a go...

Its short, sharp and sweet (pretty obvious)

It generates a surprising amount of force from a short distance (pretty obvious again)

It puts the arm in a good position for control of the other persons structure if it does happen to clash with his arms on its way through, utilising the WC tools once this has happened (should be pretty obvious)

[shawchemical]

That *may* work when your opponent is throwing neat straight, elbow down punches provided a whole lot of things fall just your way.

How do you turn your opponent?



This is a very high risk approach isn't it? A stop hit strategy? You do know that you can still hit the opponent with your straight punch and it not prevent his hook, right? You see that happen in boxing all the time.

So basically, what you are telling me is that your view is that the WCK punch, the jik chung choi, is essentially to deflect incoming straight punches and stop hit any other punches (hooks, swings, overhands, bolo, etc.)?



I don't think you trained with good boxers. There are all kinds of PROVEN ways boxers use in dealing with hooks.

So what you are saying is that in your view and from your training, WCK doesn't have any good way of dealing with a hook except to throw a straight punch at your opponent in the hope that it will stop-hit him?



If he is a fighter, then he isn't your average WCK guy.

YOu don't think at all T.

[k gledhill]

OK, so what are your answers to my questions?

You dont understand the punching centerline idea....so i'm trying to elucidate that point.

[SAAMAG]

We all know the basic WCK punch, the jik chung choi, right? We do it in the beginning of every empty hand set, we do it in our drills/exercises.

So, why do we learn and practice doing the jik chung choi on the centerline (and from our center line)? Why is this the most basic punch, some might say the foundation, of WCK?

(And I won't pull a Henrik, I will give my answer).

We learn to punch on the centerline because the centerline houses the bulk of a persons mass in addition to many vital points on the human body. Punching off the centerline can prove not as beneficial because of the natural ability for a person to shrug off or roll with the strike.

It's also IMO a fundamental strike because it's mechanically ideal to work in the close range atmosphere that wing chun deals with. The piston-like motion proves to work well at penetrating into the target quickly, allowing the whole of the punchers body to support it.

[YungChun]

Aids in focusing body mass/alignment/following/facing/pressing (hammer to nail)

Similar elements in part:

COM to COM connection--energy issuing
Shortest Path to COM
Centerline/elbow occupation/displacement
Can force/create a bridge/connection
Maintains Chun's baijong integrity when releasing force
Powerful from short/close distance
Aids continuity of linear force projection
Aids in hand unity--proximity of tools to each other
Quickly changes into most other tools
Economical and efficient use of time and space..
Looks cool when done correctly..

[Graham H]

You dont understand the punching centerline idea...

I agree!!!!!

[LSWCTN1]

We all know the basic WCK punch, the jik chung choi, right? We do it in the beginning of every empty hand set, we do it in our drills/exercises.

So, why do we learn and practice doing the jik chung choi on the centerline (and from our center line)? Why is this the most basic punch, some might say the foundation, of WCK?

(And I won't pull a Henrik, I will give my answer).

I agree with many of the posts, it operates as a piston and can come out and back without any sort of displacement to your own structure.

in line with the Bayer approach of tan and jum punching, my opinion is that a wck is a tok sau action - it lifts the opponent, therefore breaking his structure. In fighting we DO get hit, but if we can take the power out of it then its not always so bad.

striking the centre makes the opponent 'rolling' with the punch more difficult, but people who say it is the shortest distance are incorrect. its a very specific tactic to utilise your lat's and not your shoulder for power and mainly to intersect the centre line to cover the angle of the opponents punch.

elbow down also helps us to perform the purpose of chum kui properly. seek and destroy the bridge. on the outside the elbow takes their forearm and the lat pushes the power out, if the outside is the only line you can get then i would ordinarily advise to turn your body for striking. in the same way as jkeeping you bong on centre whilst turning

also, sinking to absorb an opponents power and rising to release it back to them is supported by the downwards elbow, which connects itself to the rest of your power base

[Graham H]

in line with the Bayer approach of tan and jum punching, my opinion is that a wck is a tok sau action - it lifts the opponent, therefore breaking his structure. In fighting we DO get hit, but if we can take the power out of it then its not always so bad.

We don't have Tok Sau so I can't comment.........

........ the purpose of chum kui properly. seek and destroy the bridge.

The purpose of Chum kiu is to teach one a method of fighting in the most economical way and be direct to the target.

The bridge is the path to your opponent. Is that what you mean????

Many people think that Chum Kiu is about making contact with a bridge (forearms) and controlling them. That way is not good for fighting and why so many misinterpreted systems of WC are pants IMO.

If your opponent doesnt allow you to make contact with his arms that method falls flat on its ass. I'd rather adopt an approach where we learn how to fight the person NOT the arms.

GH

[LoneTiger108]

We all know the basic WCK punch, the jik chung choi, right? We do it in the beginning of every empty hand set, we do it in our drills/exercises.

So, why do we learn and practice doing the jik chung choi on the centerline (and from our center line)? Why is this the most basic punch, some might say the foundation, of WCK?

(And I won't pull a Henrik, I will give my answer).

First of all, NOW you want us all to use YOUR term??

FWIW Jik Sin Chung KUEN is performed at the beginnning of the Lee Shing Family forms (the independent STRAIGHT left & right hand fistwork) followed by Tsong Sin Chun CHOI (the three/five CENTRAL continuous fistwork).

Basically, the hammer works better in multiples as a stun tactic over the centre line. The charging fist, well, does exactly that! It charges through everything in straight lines- immovable elbow and all that jazz.

Key differences to what you have trained no doubt T...

[t_niehoff]

First of all, NOW you want us all to use YOUR term??

Jik chung choi is the basic, generic term -- straight thrusting punch.

FWIW Jik Sin Chung KUEN is performed at the beginnning of the Lee Shing Family forms (the independent STRAIGHT left & right hand fistwork) followed by Tsong Sin Chun CHOI (the three/five CENTRAL continuous fistwork).

It's all the same sh1t.

Basically, the hammer works better in multiples as a stun tactic over the centre line. The charging fist, well, does exactly that! It charges through everything in straight lines- immovable elbow and all that jazz.

Key differences to what you have trained no doubt T...

I was asking about the basic WCK punch, not variations (not the turning punch, the raising punch, the bouncing punch, etc., not linking chain punching, not three star punching, etc.).

And you haven't answered my question about the basic WCK punch.

[LoneTiger108]

It's all the same sh1t.

And you haven't answered my question about the basic WCK punch.

Well you would say that

You haven't answered your question either T, as you stated you would.

Are we all to call you Hendrik Jnr now?

[t_niehoff]

Well you would say that

You haven't answered your question either T, as you stated you would.

Are we all to call you Hendrik Jnr now?

Just waiting to see if anyone else has an answer -- apparently most people don't know why they do it!

[k gledhill]

some don't know even after 30 years...

[t_niehoff]

some don't know even after 30 years...

I am truly sorry that you don't know.

BTW, I can even tell by looking at Bayer's punching

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JZJgyPLvlsk

that he doesn't know (as he is not DOING it).

What is it he is not DOING with his punch?

I bet YungChun and Vankuen will see it straight away.