Specific? It's pretty obvious, I mean really...
Do you see mainly chain punching in the Jong form?
How much of the form is chain punching or even punching?
Attain Master of Silence
Specific? It's pretty obvious, I mean really...
Do you see mainly chain punching in the Jong form?
How much of the form is chain punching or even punching?
Jim Hawkins
M Y V T K F
"You should have kicked him in the ball_..."—Sifu
Registered User
Can someone explain how to use your lats to throw a punch?Originally Posted by LSWCTN1
Can someone explain how NOT to use your shoulder to throw a punch?
To me the second is bio-mechanically impossible because your upper arm is attached to your shoulder joint and the muscles that move the upper arm reside in the shoulder.
As for the first you would need to be pulling the punch down towards the floor to get any significant power from the lats. The lats may become involved if you are pivoting the shoulders to provide power and then the lower back and hip would provide the main thrust and the lats may be involved in helping to pull the opposite shoulder backwards to provide thrust to the punching arm.
But wouldn't some styles of WC view that as breaking your own structure or over committing to the punch?
Mike
Attain Master of Silence
On lats: I assume this refers to the lats keeping the shoulder down, sinking the elbow, no lats don't throw the punch..Can someone explain how to use your lats to throw a punch?
Can someone explain how NOT to use your shoulder to throw a punch?
To me the second is bio-mechanically impossible because your upper arm is attached to your shoulder joint and the muscles that move the upper arm reside in the shoulder.
As for the first you would need to be pulling the punch down towards the floor to get any significant power from the lats. The lats may become involved if you are pivoting the shoulders to provide power and then the lower back and hip would provide the main thrust and the lats may be involved in helping to pull the opposite shoulder backwards to provide thrust to the punching arm.
But wouldn't some styles of WC view that as breaking your own structure or over committing to the punch?
The shoulder thing isn't about the shoulder not in use, it's about the shoulder not being the main generator of power, the body is...the whole body.. When beginners punch they mainly use the shoulder (small qua) later the large qua (hips/glutes) is the main generator and the whole body all joints are as well.
Last edited by YungChun; 10-21-2010 at 05:49 AM.
Jim Hawkins
M Y V T K F
"You should have kicked him in the ball_..."—Sifu
Registered User
That makes sense. Its called throwing a punch for a reason. I just wasn't sure what was meant here.
The WC terminology isn't always clear and can be very confusing.
Mike
Banned
Spencer, you don't get better doing X by practicing doing Y. You only get better at X by practicing doing X. That is the basis for developing skill. And that is why it is critical to know what it is you are trying to accomplish.
WCK's basic punch, the jik chung choi, is a structure breaking punch. It is like a battering ram that destroys whatever structure it strikes. So, how do you drill that? By doing that. In other words, whenever you punch that is your objective, it is what you are trying to do (not just to stick out your arm, not touch your opponent, not tap him, etc.). When you punch, you punch to destroy his structure. Only by constantly practicing trying to do that can you develop the ability to do that.
Imagine is you shot basketballs at a backboard without a hoop -- how good do you think you would get sinking baskets? A skill doesn't begin with the movement or action or technique, it begins with the objective. The movement/action is merely a way of accomplishing that objective. How"good" is your punch? You measure that by how well it accomplishes your objective; how well does it break an opponent's structure. That's the test.
I give credit where it is due.Well, you have to excuse me now.
I'm going to faint
And, Xiao3 Meng4, YungChun, and Couch have made some excellent points on this thread too.
Last edited by t_niehoff; 10-21-2010 at 06:43 AM.
Attain Master of Silence
But you've said it doesn't control, yet we break structure to control.....
Jim Hawkins
M Y V T K F
"You should have kicked him in the ball_..."—Sifu
Banned
Yes. WCK's method is to control while striking. The striking aids in that control by breaking his structure. But breaking his structure alone doesn't control him, it permits us to control him.
And let me add as an afterthought, as I pointed out to Spencer, to develop skill we must start with an objective (what it is we are trying to do). When you start with WCK's method, to control while striking, you can then easily see how the WCK punch fits into that method.
Last edited by t_niehoff; 10-21-2010 at 06:53 AM.
Junior Member
IN Yip Man's set, there is no chain punching, but in the Gu Lao and YKS Jong sets, there are a lot of chain punches.
Striking the Jong with chain punches can be detrimental to one's hands. Often, the Jong is padded to soften it.
Hawkins once asked me to do the YKS Jong set, and he was thinking how can you hit the Jong with structure and full power with your fist?
Good observation, Jim.
Registered User
Chain punching in the Jong form????? Not in mine there aint mate!!!!
As for the punch.....yes.......every time Tan Sau and Jum Sau are used. In fact everything in the system trains the punch.
GH
Registered User
Just as a matter of interest.....how many people here see the wooden dummy as representing a human being??????
GH
Banned
Mook yan jong, wood(en) man stake/post. Or, structure of a man that is made of wood.
Registered User
punching, a lot actually , but not as the "egg beater from hell"... constantly cycling and training the elbows to expand and contract ...attack/defense, simultaneously on multiple levels, it only takes a "little imagination" to see it and it helps to have aguy with the idea in his own head too...using the dummy to create ballistic displacing force in the striking attacks
iow when i meet YOUR arms they wont have the rigidity of the dummy's but Im not trying to leave the centerline. Plus the Dummy doesnt turn on its axisbut you will hopefully
the chi-sao is the same idea...punching jum v tan you tan v jum
Like GH stated once you see the tan & jum as elbow energy coupled WITH fists, you see the control is for us to master the elbows.
Elbows ,when we fight they are our slaves, when we train them, we are their slaves
Now who said that more eloquently ?
why elbows in to punch then elbows out ? stay out or come back in ..and why x the centerline ?
Last edited by k gledhill; 10-21-2010 at 08:17 PM.
Attain Master of Silence
Elbows to control the line while striking... OMG that is like totally new and different...punching, a lot actually , but not as the "egg beater from hell"... constantly cycling and training the elbows to expand and contract ...attack/defense, simultaneously on multiple levels, it only takes a "little imagination" to see it and it helps to have aguy with the idea in his own head too
iow when i meet YOUR arms they wont have the rigidity of the dummy's but Im not trying to leave the centerline. Plus the Dummy doesnt turn on its axis
the chi-sao is the same idea...punching jum v tan you tan v jum
Like GH stated once you see the tan & jum as elbow energy coupled WITH fists, you see the control is for us to master the elbows.
Elbows ,when we fight they are our slaves, when we train them, we are their slaves
Now who said that more eloquently ?
why elbows in to punch then elbows out ? stay out or come back in ..and why x the centerline ?
Jim Hawkins
M Y V T K F
"You should have kicked him in the ball_..."—Sifu
Registered User
once again, terminology transcends realityElbows to control the line while striking... OMG that is like totally new and different...
Registered User
new idea ? not controlling, attacking.. dont assume that YOUR idea is Yip Mans..Elbows to control the line while striking... OMG that is like totally new and different...
Last edited by k gledhill; 10-21-2010 at 11:14 PM.
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