what the difference?

[Knifefighter]

Lol have you ever tried to throw or sweep spme one who is resisting ,punching ,countering ,attacking you? Watch high level Judoka . How pretty are their throws? Without striking? Not very. Wing Chun has a whole series of throws and sweeps. they work best after you have punched or elbowed some one a few times thus stunning them or breaking their center or gaining control over their center of gravity in some way.

It seems like this whole form has been sold a bill of goods. Wing Chun is not some magic that will allow you to do things that no other fighting art can do. No Kung Fu movie fights although they do look good.

Wing chun trains all phases of stand up fighting ending with throws to the ground. This should be no different than any other stand up art. Boxing is a sport so no throws. Also wing chun trains how to resist /prevent being thrown or swept.

No magic no special only i know the real wing chun. It is in all wing chun.

Yung Chun I can not help if you were not taught the whole system. I have talked with many wing chun Sifu from many different families over the years including Ip Man direct students. Everyone had the same elements just what some emphasized was different.

Great... so you apparently have the "realz" WC.

Post a sparring clip or two to demonstrate it.

[horserider]

Great... so you apparently have the "realz" WC.

Post a sparring clip or two to demonstrate it.

Your spelling as bad as mine English not your native language either? There is no " real" wing chun just wing chun. Sorry if some one take your money tell you they teach you wing chun then not do it. Not my fault or problem.

Why?

[bennyvt]

man I go to sleep with two reponses and now its about if throws finish fights.

[m1k3]

Great... so you apparently have the "realz" WC.

Post a sparring clip or two to demonstrate it.

Your spelling as bad as mine English not your native language either? There is no " real" wing chun just wing chun. Sorry if some one take your money tell you they teach you wing chun then not do it. Not my fault or problem.

Why?

realz is internet talk. Why does he want proof, because so many people claim to have the real wing chun but it only works when you are doing drills and not against people who are fighting back.

Now, my turn.

What I have read from T. and Horserider makes WC sound a lot like the grip and hand fighting and entry techniques used in Judo or Greco wrestling. Of course with the addition of strikes.

So, is chi sao similar to pummeling exercises done in grappling classes?

If that had been the case I might have stuck with it.

[m1k3]

Back to the original question.

I think one of the biggest differences is that in bjj once you start rolling you continue until someone taps or time runs out.

In the chi sao I did, and what I see posted all the time, is you go until someone lands a strike of some sort or contact is broken and then you reset.

From my personal experience the intensity is very different also.

[bennyvt]

In our school chi sao stops when you have complete control, normally hitting and the other guy has stopped defending. We learn if you are hit then hit back. I have been to several schools were they call it cheating if they hit you and you hit them back, weird. It becomes like a tag game. The strikes continue until they are stopped. how else do you learn to actually fight. If they hit you, you must do something to stop it not just go "****, I should have stopped that."
Any time we lose contact once at a certain level we just step back in but we aren't rolling to make contact. Rolling only starts again if we are botyh stuck. We would class this more as gorsao.

[Knifefighter]

So, is chi sao similar to pummeling exercises done in grappling classes?

If that had been the case I might have stuck with it.

That's how it SHOULD be done.

[YouKnowWho]

WC sound a lot like the grip and hand fighting and entry techniques ...

That's a good point. It looks very similiar to the SC grip fight:

http://johnswang.com/sc_grip_fight.wmv

[Knifefighter]

Great... so you apparently have the "realz" WC.

Post a sparring clip or two to demonstrate it.

Your spelling as bad as mine English not your native language either? There is no " real" wing chun just wing chun. Sorry if some one take your money tell you they teach you wing chun then not do it. Not my fault or problem.

Why?

You claim to have something that most other people are doing incorrectly. It's up to you to provide some type of evidence for that. Otherwise you are simply just another one of the hordes of theoretical, pretend, non-fighters who thinks he has the real deal.

[t_niehoff]

What I have read from T. and Horserider makes WC sound a lot like the grip and hand fighting and entry techniques used in Judo or Greco wrestling. Of course with the addition of strikes.

So, is chi sao similar to pummeling exercises done in grappling classes?

If that had been the case I might have stuck with it.

You've got the picture.

[horserider]

You claim to have something that most other people are doing incorrectly. It's up to you to provide some type of evidence for that. Otherwise you are simply just another one of the hordes of theoretical, pretend, non-fighters who thinks he has the real deal.


I claim nothing. I state what I do and what is included in the wing chun curriculum. My family wing chun is documented in writing going back to my ancestors teacher Master Leung Jaan. . I never stated anyone was incorrect. Only what is included. If you were not taught the full system and if others were not taught. That is nothing to do with me. By tradition you and others would not have been taught everything of any TCMA not just wing chun.

You are nobody I have to prove nothing to you or to anyone else. I owe you nothing. I owe the people on this forum nothing.

As for fighting I know theories and I know how to fight because I fought many times when I was young. I was forced to fight ,not given an option by those probably not very different than yourself.

I do not know what this 'real deal' is about. It has no importance or interest for me. I have what I have. That is all.

I do not charge for teaching Wing Chun. I only teach those recommended to me. I do not teach westerns. I follow my family traditions. I have Sidai that do teach all interested however.

If you ever visit Toronto you are welcome to visit and we will spar if you like. I am 63 years old not what I once was but still it would be fun.

If I did teach for money and wanted to promote myself and a school I would post videos. It would be smart marketing i would think.

[Knifefighter]

You are nobody I have to prove nothing to you or to anyone else. I owe you nothing. I owe the people on this forum nothing.

LOL... that's what all the theoretical, pretend, non-fighters say, yet you seem to feel the need to "prove" with words upon words in their posts.

These days, the web is just as much a video medium as it is a verbal medium. Video recorders are ubiquitous and it takes 5 minutes to download to UTube. Videos are worth a thousand words. Funny how you need to "prove" by posting, but you can't "prove" by showing a simple clip.

[Knifefighter]

I claim nothing. I state what I do and what is included in the wing chun curriculum. My family wing chun is documented in writing going back to my ancestors teacher Master Leung Jaan. . I never stated anyone was incorrect. Only what is included. If you were not taught the full system and if others were not taught. That is nothing to do with me. By tradition you and others would not have been taught everything of any TCMA not just wing chun..

You are claiming to be one of the few who have all the stages of WC. You said that here.

It is the bane and downfall of Wing Chun that the knowledge and practice of how to deal with the other 2 stages of stand up fighting is lost to all but a small few and that chi sao is now for many no more than a patty cake game and the staple training method.

Then you said this:

To Knifefighter I do not understand your question for proof. My family teaches this,all our students learn this what more proof is there?

I did not ask for proof. I asked for evidence. You provided neither proof nor evidence. You provided only words. Anyone can make any claim with simple words.

[bennyvt]

Id like to see the written documents as no-one has ever shown that sort of link past 80-100yrs backward, let alone leung Jan.
By the way you racist idiot, won't teach westerners. Thats was normally as the little men didn't want to be beatten by the "big bad westerners". Thought that stopped years ago. I know certain schools have changed to make it easier because they think westeners can't do certain things.
You must have been in heaps of fight but if you think throwing someone is the finish.. Not even grappling arts are that dumb. Thats why they go to the ground. As hitting the ground is never a given that they can't just get back up.
In catch they teach you to take falls much like judo does. My mate taught me by doing suplexes on me. Yeh if I didn't know how to land it might snap my neck. Seem it several times in UFC and they get straight back up.

[t_niehoff]

I claim nothing. I state what I do and what is included in the wing chun curriculum. My family wing chun is documented in writing going back to my ancestors teacher Master Leung Jaan. . I never stated anyone was incorrect. Only what is included.

Well, actually you did write that

"It is the bane and downfall of Wing Chun that the knowledge and practice of how to deal with the other 2 stages of stand up fighting is lost to all but a small few and that chi sao is now for many no more than a patty cake game and the staple training method."

and that suggests that you are one of those "small few" that have the "lost part" of WCK.

My own view is that these things are not lost, they are out there, but if we aren't open to them and don't actively seek them out, they are lost to us (individually). Many of us assume or take it for granted that our teacher is teaching us "the whole system" or "the complete art" or whatever, but how do we know? He may be teaching me all he knows - or thinks he knows. There may be more, lots more. Or, there may just be another way of teaching it or looking at it or whatever that helps me. This is why I think we need to stop thinking in terms of lineage/branch, to start thinking in terms of WCK is WCK, and seeing the art in broad terms, in terms of what is the core curriculum of WCK (and not as just my little lineage or branch).

If you were not taught the full system and if others were not taught. That is nothing to do with me. By tradition you and others would not have been taught everything of any TCMA not just wing chun.

That may have been the case, and still may be the case for some, but there are people who don't subscribe to such views and do teach openly, and completely, to anyone.

And I don't think this is the case of anyone not being taught "the full system". From my perspective, WCK is like geometry,where you need certain fundamentals (axioms) and method (deduction) and you can derive everything else.