Lama Pai, Hop Gar, Bak Hok

[lkfmdc]

The "maht jong" in "maht jong lama pai" refers to Vajrayana Buddhism

"fut ga" means "buddhist style"....

certainly Vajrayana is a form of Buddhism and thus part of "fut ga"

[jdhowland]

The "maht jong" in "maht jong lama pai" refers to Vajrayana Buddhism

"fut ga" means "buddhist style"....

certainly Vajrayana is a form of Buddhism and thus part of "fut ga"

Absolutely right.

It is interesting that some school leaders have embraced the generic Fat Ga name while others have shunned it.

T.Y. Wong taught a Siu Lum style that he emphasized was NOT the same as Fut Gar. I can only imagine that the reason he chose to distance himself from the name is that some people were calling it that.

A branch of Hung Sing Choy Lee Fut is now Hung Sing Fut Gar.

A branch of Chan Family Choy Lee Fut is now Fut Gar.

My siu bak changed the name of his BSCLF to Bak Sing Fut Gar.

This kind of verbal distancing seems to be useful for creating new brand name recognition.

.

[CLFNole]

Absolutely right.
A branch of Chan Family Choy Lee Fut is now Fut Gar.
.

Really??? This is one I never heard before.

[jdhowland]

Really??? This is one I never heard before.

I just learned of it myself a couple of years ago. It may not be a big group, just somenone's interpretation. He says it comes from Choy Fok tradition and I know that one of his teachers is a Chan style CLF guy, so maybe I misrepresented it as CLF in the first place.

[CLFNole]

I wonder how much can really be traced all the way back to Choy Fook? When I hear things like that I always get the bad idea in my head that someone learned some CLF then made their own style from it saying it is from Choy Fook or insert whomever you want. Makes it sound "special" which is typically a red flag.

[jdhowland]

=CLFNole;1217947]I wonder how much can really be traced all the way back to Choy Fook?

I wasn't lead to believe there is any more info than we already have. That's why I jumped to the conclusion of CLF.

...typically a red flag

Exactly what went through my alleged mind. But it seems he only wanted to pare the system down to concepts and gings for what suited him, and he continues to train with approval from a good CLF representative, my own sifu. In this case I completely understand why he doesn't wish to call it CLF. I only included this as an example because, however small the group of people he influences, it still represents a turn to the fat ga label. My sifu has also dropped most set training from his schedule and practices mostly noi gung/ hei gungs.

[CLFNole]

Didn't realize you knew him thought it was someone you just knew of. I understand teaching less and focusing on specific things. CLF has way too many forms in my opinion.

[taichi4eva]

I just wanted to get everyone's opinion on this- what are the big differences between Lama/ Hop Gar/ White Crane and CLF?

Just to get the ball rolling, I've been told that the stances are higher. Personally, I've had a hard time with this because of my baji and shaolin background. I'm so used to "sinking' but my White Crane teacher encourages me to be more mobile.

[jdhowland]

[QUOTE=taichi4eva;1218152]I just wanted to get everyone's opinion on this- what are the big differences between Lama/ Hop Gar/ White Crane and CLF?

Just to get the ball rolling, I've been told that the stances are higher. ...QUOTE]

Lama stances may be higher in the beginning. White Crane teaches a thighs-parallel-to-floor sei pihng mah for training but it doesn't show much in the movement. I would say that Lama stances are generally narrower but even CLF varies in height. Both have very active footwork.

CLF emphasizes the continuity of fight with strong waist power and simultaneous defense and attack and allows for a sequence of traded back-and-forth exchanges while seeking an advantage.

Lama styles generally prefer to avoid the long exchange of blows from both parties and try to wait for the opportunity to create an opening and blast away until something is resolved. If the tactic fails, separate and try again.

Note that the above are only theoretical differences and reflect attitudes rather than absolute differences. Different fighters have different attributes and preferences but the Lama stylist is always encouraged to go for the overwhelming series of whirlwind attacks.

The three major attributes of the Lama styles that set it apart from CLF or other "Faht Ga" systems are footwork/angling (baat gwa and chat sing stepping as well as skipping or jumping steps), body toughening (not lacking in CLF but emphasized in a different way), and power generation. Each of these three general subjects is worthy of a thread of its own.

[lkfmdc]

NOTE
This is done at "walk through" speed, just to record the set

To me, it is very classic CTS verson Lama Pai, others have said it looks a lot like CLF...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y5Z8Gpq-RUY

[taichi4eva]

I trained with Sifu Innocenzi for a private lesson in Lama basics. I wish I had more time in NYC, because it was so enlightening. It is footage like this that makes me wish I was going to school closer to the East Coast.

[lkfmdc]

I should really note that Laurette was the first one of us to speak Chinese and helped us a LOT.... he also had a wide experience in TCMA....

[lkfmdc]

absolutely; and like urself, was committed to scholarship

I had academic Chinese language training which of course helped, I also had a (crazy) Chinese wife who was able to communicate with him....

then there were the chosen few who, despite having no ability to communicate w CTS at all, some how miracuously inhereited the system along w all the detailed knowledge thereof...

and translate elaborte quotes about subtle advanced philosophy (that CTS never said)

[lkfmdc]

indeed - I actualy just got the contact info for the person whose lineage it is actually from, so will be reaching out for some verification the next few days...

grabs popcorn and waits for fun to ensure

[lkfmdc]

well there may not be that much fun, I'm going to keep it kinda quiet, just between relevant parties...