Information on 5 Animals - Ark Wong's style and ranks

[Grasshopper101]

Hello all,

This is my first time posting on the forum. I wanted to know if anyone can give me some insight on Ark Wong's Five Animals sash ranks.

The reason I am asking is because I've known a gentleman for a while now that claimed that he was a master under Ark Wong, and earned a red sash.

However, from the information I've been able to gather online is that a red sash is a middle rank - below a black sash, and certainly not a master.

The gentleman also claims that he trained for five years until he got his black sash, and an additional four years to earn his red sash, specializing in praying mantis.

I asked him about what I red online about the red sash thing, and he claims that the ranking system must have been changed, and that when he was there it was a rank reserved for a "master" rank.

Can anybody answer this for me? I also have the gentleman's name if anybody that trained under Ark Wong back then (I'm not 100% on the years - somewhere in either the late 1960's thru the 1970's) that might recognize his name and if they knew him or not. I was going to post his name, but decided to wait and see how the forum members feel about that sort of thing before I did.

Thank you

[David Jamieson]

sashes are all over the map when it comes to which one is highest rank etc.

anyway, some schools have gold as the highest, some schools use stripes on black and some schools have red as the highest.

It's not a set pattern of ranking all the time in every style and it is only ever relevant within the style alone.

a black sash in a kung fu style doesn't map over to karate or jujitsu etc.

There's a couple of guys here who trained with Ark Wong.
I'm sure they will respond.

I believe one guy is named Jim and the other is Ron and maybe one or two more.

anyway, why the public investigation?

[jdhowland]

[QUOTE=Grasshopper101;1052318.However, from the information I've been able to gather online is that a red sash is a middle rank - below a black sash, and certainly not a master.[/QUOTE]

I recall having seen a magazine cover featuring Ark Wong in the '70s. He was wearing a green sash. I doubt that anyone uses green at the top of a hierarchy of colors, so I assume he didn't have one.

In many schools everyone, including the sifu, wears red during lion dance and other public displays to show martial ardor. It has nothing to do with rank.

In my white crane school all beginning students wore black sash for humility. It wasn't an awarded rank. It just held your pants up.

[thailandgary]

No such thing............ The guy isn't telling you the truth.. I studied with GM Wong from 1969 - till he passed away. Belts mean different things in different styles. As far as GM Wong was concerned , colors didn't mean anything. But , black was given to those that were able to pass certain tests at the Hop Sing Tong Association , and then they were able to teach others... Ask him about that and what the tests were ............

[hskwarrior]

Hop Sing Hing Dai!!!!!!

[kfman5F]

As far as I know, Praying Mantis was not a style that GM Ark Wong taught and is not part of the Five Family Style curriculum.

[Dale Dugas]

red flags for red sashes in material that was not traditionally associated with GM Wong.

Hard to ask the teacher when they have passed from this realm.

How many more frauds will claim rank from a dead teacher?

[sean_stonehart]

How many more frauds will claim rank from a dead teacher?

As long as they're allowed left un-cupchecked, anybody can & some will.

Question is... who's really honestly willing to put "it" on the line to go square things up. As times are now, gong sau to cupcheck teacher over such things isn't like it used to be.

Only thing that can truly be done & even then that has to be specific in wording, lest we open ourselves to slander and libel, is put the word out.

[Dale Dugas]

People want to sue you for slander and libel are totally open in what is termed discovery for the accused to crawl up their backside and find out the truth and all the dirty laundry about said person in relation to the case.

Most frauds would not dare as they would be called out and found out.

I have been threatened to be sued by a few people and when I explained to them what would really happen to them in court, they backed off.

Its a scare tactic mostly.

You want to sue me, you are going to have hire a lawyer here in MA where I live and then get a warrant and serve me here in MA.

Most frauds are not going to pony up thousands of dollars to scare me.

[Kevin73]

Here is a clip of GM Seming Ma, Ark Wong's grandson and inheritor of the system. Not that it's definitive proof, but he is wearing a black sash in the clip.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XkcV3OxX5mo

I have heard other GM Wong student's make mention that he did use a black sash as kind of an equivalent of what we view a black belt as for the US audience.

[thailandgary]

Back in the very early 70's , Y.C. Wong ,a couple of his top students , and some other Sifu from Seattle came to Los Angeles , and wanted to talk to GM Wong about forming a kung fu society ...He thought it was pretty funny , but we got a free dinner out of it ... My name is Gary Steuer , and I was invited to come along by GM Wong. After the dinner we went back to the studio on Ord st. and he thanked them for the dinner and that was that ... Thhe belt / sash thing meant absolutely nothing....At Chinese new year our school was always given to perform for the celebration in front of the crowds... Before going into the parade GM Wong would hand out sashes to all the students so that we would look colorful...That was all there was to it ....... You are so right , who would confront a fake after the teacher had died..... Truth is there are plenty ! I would like to have that chance !!

[Grasshopper101]

From what I've been able to gather, the sash ranks were supposedly gray, green, red, blue, and black, but maybe not in that particular order.

Can somebody who trained back then clarify those ranks?

I really would like to know if someone here trained there for enough years to possibly remember the name of this individual and if he really trained there or how long. I realize that many people probably came and went and this is not absolue proof, but I would like to know if this person is feeding me and his students a line of BS.

I can PM the name if thats what people would prefer.

[jdhowland]

From what I've been able to gather, the sash ranks were supposedly gray, green, red, blue, and black, but maybe not in that particular order.

Can somebody who trained back then clarify those ranks?

Um..somebody just did. They didn't exist.

[Grasshopper101]

Um..somebody just did. They didn't exist.

I was wondering if maybe that changed later on, perhaps in the late 70's early 80's.

People who currently teach the style use sash ranks like those, so I was wondering how they got them.

[thailandgary]

OK , Either this is just a joke or you have a listening problem.......... In Chinese styles ..BELTS DON'T EXIST ! If they do , they are strictly for in school use.........