What's wrong with sport fighting?

[Knifefighter]

The "we don't have rules, but sports do, so we can practice our too deadly without rules techniques (although only in a pretend manner), is the exact same type of thinking that causes the "no rules" crowd to get handily beaten every time they have been tested against the "rules" crowd for the last 150 years since Judo was invented precisely to prove how stupid that mindset is.

[sanjuro_ronin]

there's nothing wrong with sport fighting.

from my own opinion, my kung fu has taught me to have defense against unpredicted attacks such as kidnapping, mugging, sexual assault. it's about living in a mindset of awareness on the street - defense.

sport fighting inherently teaches awareness of situations, however it's in situations where both parties start from the same point - they both know there will be a fight - thus attacks are premeditated to a certain extent so it's based in offense.

either on can get you where you want to go, if you keep on your path and are honest with your personal limitations.

Which should make sport fighting all the more easier for you.

[Knifefighter]

What I'm after is a way to train my techs with reasonable proximity to the real thing with a resisting live opponent, and sport style training for us, has to really be managed heavily to keep the student on track. Its almost like one day, 'click' the light goes on, and they get it, and then they are off and running.

Tell me what your techniques are and I can tell you a way to train them in the sport model that will make them significantly more effective.

[Knifefighter]

I'm referring to the training, and the focus on ring skills, and the 'bad' side would be to limit your training and focus on only what works in the ring.

Training to focus just on ring skills with the sport model will develop significantly will more ability than will training in just techniques that are "too dangerous" to practice full force.

[Knifefighter]

Sports fighting is just that though. Martial Art fighting on a professional level. just like foot ball....baseball....basket ball. Some people like to play as a past time and are pretty good at it doing so over time. being "PROFESSIONAL" is another LEVEL of the game meant for those who can afford to spend their lives training all day.

Plenty of people hold down day jobs and compete at the recreational level in most sports.

The only thing i think is wrong with sports fighting is RULES.

And where and how, exactly, are you training without RULES?

This looks to be pretty rules based to me- much more than any MMA match you are going to see:

http://hlk415.webs.com/apps/videos/v...kwoon-sparring

[hskwarrior]

oh yeah...they were training for a Point sparring type of tournament with no head shots. they trained the entire time on body shots. they sparred most times with 12 3 minute rounds. but yeah, there were rules in this fighting. and we still got dq'd. which turned out to be a complete waist of time.

[t_niehoff]

This "argument" has been going on since the sport model was applied to martial arts.

The rationale for why the sport model is vastly superior to the traditional model of training is easily found on the web(it's based on the specificity principle of skill development: that we only develop a skill by really doing that skill). It's pointless to rehash it.

The TMAs are infested with people who want to believe that they can develop fighting skills without fighting.

The bottom like is that the evidence proves that the sport model of training is simply a vast improvement over the traditional approach to MA training. We see this from the results obtained by people doing the training. Not argument, not what we fantasize, not our speculation, etc. but from the evidence.

And the evidence is that people who are sport-trained develop USABLE and DEMONSTRABLE fighting skills more quickly and to much, much higher levels than those who use TMA-type training.

[Knifefighter]

oh yeah...they were training for a Point sparring type of tournament with no head shots. they trained the entire time on body shots. they sparred most times with 12 3 minute rounds. but yeah, there were rules in this fighting. and we still got dq'd. which turned out to be a complete waist of time.

OK, so, again, it does beg the question. Where is it you guys are training without rules?

[hskwarrior]

ok, so, again, it does beg the question. Where is it you guys are training without rules?

secret -classified - on a need to know basis

LMAO....are you ALWAYS on DEBUNK MODE? LMAO.......ancient chinese secret

[Knifefighter]

secret -classified - on a need to know basis

Frank- can you see why we give you are hard time for this cr@p? First you put down sport fighting because it has rules. Then the only evidence you can provide for your contact training is two guys heavily geared up, sparring with more rules than you can shake a fist at. Then, when asked where any evidence is that you are training without the rules, you give an answer like this.

Can you see how people might conclude you are lying and being fraudulent?

[hskwarrior]

Frank- can you see why we give you are hard time for this cr@p? First you put down sport fighting because it has rules. Then the only evidence you can provide for your contact training is two guys heavily geared up, sparring with more rules than you can shake a fist at. Then, when asked where any evidence is that you are training without the rules, you give an answer like this.

Can you see how people might conclude you are lying and being fraudulent?

DUDE, i'm nowhere near the kind of people you are focusing on. You think im putting it down. How can i put it down if i'm pushing for my students to go that route? What you see as fighting and I see as fighting are not the same. that's ok. i'm not against bjj because for someone who has been in enough street fights that went to the ground i know the benefit of BJJ. I don't put down any styles or methods. I recognize the hogwash and make sure my stuff is hog wash free.

I haven't condemned any fighting method. i only raise my hand to indicate that TCMA is on a Sunday Football game at the park with your friends while MMA is more on a NFL level. do you see my point. In MANY cases i totally agree with you and you make enough sense that i turn and look at what i teach so that my students don't get the short end of the stick.

and dude, my answer to you is one with my tongue sticking out at you...or smiled....but i answered you that way cause i knew it would push your buttons. i don't have filim of my guys fighting all out with no rules. in a controlled setting there are always rules. i know this. it's YOU who are running around like you have nothing better to do in life but get up the arses of TCMA people.

Additionally, there is a hand full of worth while people here on the forum. i'm not on here to impress anyone. so i have nothing to prove. i participate on this forum because its a community of Martial artists on all levels.

if YOU are not training BS to your guys, why waste your time and energy on a forum pent up with all that energy? LET or ALLOW the others to teach their mess. the way you go off all the time makes people think you're kinda off your rocker whether you make your points or not.

my question to you is this...why has this become your obsession? like you see, i too see the garbage some people talk about. and i mean from almost everyone here on the forum. but my sifu taught me to keep my mouth shut in most cases but sometimes what people come up with here on the forum is outlandish...too outlandish that i can't stay quiet.

to conclude, you know why i don't post up things we train other than very low level basics? cause i don't want outsiders to see how we train. it's a tradition of my lineage going back to the beginning. but moreso, i have nothing to prove. i'm not making wild claims like CLF beats all. i do say CLF has a great stand up game. i openly admit that its ground game is non existent.

but i'm not an open book for any old tom d1ck and harry to attempt to pick apart what i teach. i was raised in a secretive society and you can say that rubbed off on me. trust me, there is much more to me than i publicly share.

Can you see how people might conclude you are lying and being fraudulent?

i know that people will come to whatever conclusions their minds reach. i know for sure that no one has YET to walk away from my training claiming its fraudulent. what i teach is practical techniques for practical situations. i don't not claim to be on the MMA level.

[Knifefighter]

DUDE, i'm nowhere near the kind of people you are focusing on. You think im putting it down. How can i put it down if i'm pushing for my students to go that route? What you see as fighting and I see as fighting are not the same. that's ok. i'm not against bjj because for someone who has been in enough street fights that went to the ground i know the benefit of BJJ. I don't put down any styles or methods. I recognize the hogwash and make sure my stuff is hog wash free.

I haven't condemned any fighting method. i only raise my hand to indicate that TCMA is on a Sunday Football game at the park with your friends while MMA is more on a NFL level. do you see my point. In MANY cases i totally agree with you and you make enough sense that i turn and look at what i teach so that my students don't get the short end of the stick.

and dude, my answer to you is one with my tongue sticking out at you...or smiled....but i answered you that way cause i knew it would push your buttons. i don't have filim of my guys fighting all out with no rules. in a controlled setting there are always rules. i know this. it's YOU who are running around like you have nothing better to do in life but get up the arses of TCMA people.

Additionally, there is a hand full of worth while people here on the forum. i'm not on here to impress anyone. so i have nothing to prove. i participate on this forum because its a community of Martial artists on all levels.

if YOU are not training BS to your guys, why waste your time and energy on a forum pent up with all that energy? LET or ALLOW the others to teach their mess. the way you go off all the time makes people think you're kinda off your rocker whether you make your points or not.

my question to you is this...why has this become your obsession? like you see, i too see the garbage some people talk about. and i mean from almost everyone here on the forum. but my sifu taught me to keep my mouth shut in most cases but sometimes what people come up with here on the forum is outlandish...too outlandish that i can't stay quiet.

to conclude, you know why i don't post up things we train other than very low level basics? cause i don't want outsiders to see how we train. it's a tradition of my lineage going back to the beginning. but moreso, i have nothing to prove. i'm not making wild claims like CLF beats all. i do say CLF has a great stand up game. i openly admit that its ground game is non existent.

but i'm not an open book for any old tom d1ck and harry to attempt to pick apart what i teach. i was raised in a secretive society and you can say that rubbed off on me. trust me, there is much more to me than i publicly share.

Tell ya what... you want me to stop making fun of you? Then quit making statement about the rules of the sport model when you clearly have them in everything you do.

[Sardinkahnikov]

traditional martial arts are better and this video proves it
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rlBj1GiQaI4

can a sport fighter do a flip over a sword or become invisible (3.35)? NO so fvck u!!1

[hskwarrior]

Tell ya what... you want me to stop making fun of you? Then quit making statement about the rules of the sport model when you clearly have them in everything you do.

brother you can make fun of me all you want. will that change who i am? will it change the perspective of anyone who comes to train with me? No. LOL.

Look, i can make fun of you as much as you do me. Do i? really? i try to play with you to get you to lighten up.

How about this, if i talk about sports model rules, i will also openly admit to having rules during my students sparring. deal?

[Knifefighter]

brother you can make fun of me all you want. will that change who i am? will it change the perspective of anyone who comes to train with me? No. LOL.

Look, i can make fun of you as much as you do me. Do i? really? i try to play with you to get you to lighten up.

How about this, if i talk about sports model rules, i will also openly admit to having rules during my students sparring. deal?

Sounds fair.