the teaching of SLT

[jesper]

If you've ever look into the eyes of someone dying you'll believe that there is some life force whatever you might call it.
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Not really. Not if you talk in a metaphysic way

[theo]

If you've ever look into the eyes of someone dying you'll believe that there is some life force whatever you might call it.





Reading in fundamental. You missed the whole point. What we were saying is that repetition is required to develop instinctive motor skills. Music was used as an example. We could have used sports drills as an example. You made a comment about leaving one WC lineage to do WSL WC. He advocated doing repetitive drills.

i've never seen that before phil, but experience like that is something u don't forget i imagine.

kulo pin sun wing chun also stresses repetition to develop natural dynamics. each of the fists can be done repetitively solo or in partner drill sets to develop the attributes. although there is a specific format initially, a reference point if you will, it is flexible to experiment and improvise

[t_niehoff]

If you've ever look into the eyes of someone dying you'll believe that there is some life force whatever you might call it.

Yes, traumatic events often results in people believing all kinds of nonsense. Intelligent people use critical thinking (science, etc.) so that they don't fall prey to those sorts of things.

[couch]

. . . . I found a better way of doing things. . .GH

You found a way you like.

Amen to that, Phil.

[RedJunkRebel]

Oh, "understanding" -- coming from performing the actions in the air, without an opponent, etc. Gothca. Yeah, that will really give you the detail, structure, and understanding you need to fighting imaginary opponents. Some people "study" WCK, and others DO it.

It is obvious from your posts that you do neither. You constantly rail against the art and training that you claim to understand. You are like an encyclopedia, full of information but obviously with no real depth of understanding. I can only conclude that you were either taught incorrectly, or you did not have the patience to plumb the depths of the art. My guess is the latter.

My guess is the latter as well.

[t_niehoff]

My guess is the latter as well.

LOL! Oh, another of the "understanding" people.

When will you guys stop looking at WCK as something different in kind from every other athletic activity?

What makes a good basketball player? His "understanding"? Do you think that NBA players are better skilled than high school players because of some better intellectual grasp of the game? Do you think what makes Manny Pacquiao so good is that he "knows" something other boxers don't? Or that Roger Gracie has some "special knowledge" that makes him so good?

It always comes down to having the basics (fundamentals) and then putting in the hard work of being able to use them better than the other guy. How well you can DO something -- SKILL -- comes from practice (doing that skill). That doesn't depend on superior knowledge or understanding.

I think the whole "understanding" and "knowledge" nonsense stems from theoretical nonfighters who teach a whole morass of theory that they tell their students is necessary to "know and understand" before they can make their WCK work. These are the "concept" and "principle" people. Their WCK is "conceptually-based" because that is all it is, a concept, an idea, a theory. When you are not DOING it then theory is king as it's all you have.

Whereas when your WCK is skill-based, THAT is all it is: a skill.

[JPinAZ]

What makes someone unable to fight using WC even after 17 years of practice? a total lack of skill. What makes them unable to recognize WHY they still suck after wasting something like 17 years - a total lack of understanding of even the basic fundamentals, along with a total lack of understanding of why/how they can fix their crap WC. (how can you fix something if you know know/understand what's wrong)
What makes them still suck? It's too late by the time they finally 'understood' how to fix their sh!t because they were now old as f*&k ..

So yeah, knowledge and understanding go hand-in-hand with skill. In most cases anyway.
Not talking about anyone in particular

[YungChun]

There's understanding or knowing the core... But isn't it true for most families that the core training is to be dropped at some point?

My understanding of the art was that the core training had parts.. Part 1, part 2, part 3, etc.. Once you get to part 2 part 1 was dropped.. The only time we trained the last part was with the younger brothers--si dai... Once we moved onto the next part of the training we were done with the last...

As I was taught this is true for the whole system.... Now in reality most folks are going to keep parts of the core training going.. IME this is mainly because they never really completed it, are actively teaching it, or to improve their ChiSao.. There is so much in ChiSao you could train and most can't do all of it.. Still the base is the base and was intended to be dropped in favor of actual application..and what advanced folks should be doing.. This at least is what I was taught..


Terence: People talk about understanding it because they don't, remember when you didn't?

[stonecrusher69]

Here's a thought I was wondering about.

We've all heard before how SLT has been said to be the major core of WCK.

How were you taught SLT?

Specifically, what was the emphasis and how it was explained to you regarding the breathing, intention and purpose?

there are many ways to play the SLT form. One way i was taught was to time my breathing with the tan. wu and fok sao movements. When the hand goes out you breathe in when the hand comes back you breathe out. how fast the movments are is based on how slow and deep you can breathe.

[t_niehoff]

What makes someone unable to fight using WC even after 17 years of practice? a total lack of skill. What makes them unable to recognize WHY they still suck after wasting something like 17 years - a total lack of understanding of even the basic fundamentals, along with a total lack of understanding of why/how they can fix their crap WC. (how can you fix something if you know know/understand what's wrong)
What makes them still suck? It's too late by the time they finally 'understood' how to fix their sh!t because they were now old as f*&k ..

So yeah, knowledge and understanding go hand-in-hand with skill. In most cases anyway.
Not talking about anyone in particular

One of the "concepts" guys speaks . . .

I couldn't make my WCK work to my satisfaction after 17 years for the same reason you and your sifu can't make your WCK work today (if you think you can, go visit the MMA gym and have the white belts school you). I was missing fundamental skills.

It has nothing to do with "understanding". If no one teaches you how to DO X (a skill), then you can't DO it. It's like wrestling, if no one teaches you HOW to sprawl (a skill), then you will get taken down again and again. So it's not that you don't "understand" wrestling, it is that you haven't learned a fundamental skill NEEDED (that is what makes it fundamental) to successfully wrestle.

The only "knowledge" you need are the fundamental skills. It's the same for any athletic activity.

[goju]

I couldn't make my WCK work to my satisfaction after 17 years for the same reason you and your sifu can't make your WCK work today (if you think you can, go visit the MMA gym and have the white belts school you). I was missing fundamental skills.

.

lets see a video of you holding your own against these people or better yet just tell us who these figthers are you claim to train with regularly so we can ask them for ourselves about you and your claims which you have done absolutely nothing to prove.

It's completely understandable why people dont immediately jump on the the terrence neihoff bandwagon when you offer nothing other than words on a screen.


Think about it if some slob came on here and told you that you dont know what you are doing and his only pearls of wisdom is "uh go spar with a boxer" would you immediately drop everything you're doing and listen to this slob who you have never met or seen in action AT ALL?

Of course not so why are you on this campaign to disrupt virtually every discussion and get people to see your way? How about offering more than just theories? And they are just thoeries no matter how much you want to delude yourself into thinking other wise.


Heres another idea why not make a video where you show the ineffective training methods/techniques of this style . Break them down then show them in a live setting against these Mt and MMA practioners. You dont even have to be in the video . Im sure you have other Wc people you know who can demonstrate your thoeries for you.

Since apparently so many people arent doing things the proper way lets see it.

You tell me to go learn wc right? Well if there are so many theoretical schools out there who can i put my faith in then? Why dont you help people like me by showing the realistic proper way for us since we are apparently surrounded by thoeretical non fighters and frauds and will end up like the people on here you criticize. if we train like that.

Your apparently concerned with making WC work in an mma setting so do something to convince us mma guys its worth learning.

[YouKnowWho]

if no one teaches you HOW to sprawl (a skill), then you will get taken down again and again.

Agree with you 100% there. The "揿(Qin) - downward pulling, Sprawl" is such an important move that should exist in all MA styles. We train MA to solve problems. The leg shooting is one of the problems that we willl need to solve no matter which style that we came from.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=57w6t4Wp0O4

[jeetsao]

LOL! Oh, another of the "understanding" people.


What makes a good basketball player? His "understanding"? Do you think that NBA players are better skilled than high school players because of some better intellectual grasp of the game? .

Partly.

As a matter of fact, Michael Jordan believed it was his understanding of the game that allowed him stay on top in to his 30's when he freely admitted that his physical skills were fading.

[JPinAZ]

I couldn't make my WCK work to my satisfaction after 17 years ....[garbage].... I was missing fundamental skills.

No sh!t you were missing the fundamentals, but it took you 17 years to come to that conclusion?

(if you think you can, go visit the MMA gym and have the white belts school you)

right. So you're saying that your, what, 60+ years old a$$ is schooling all the 20-30 year old white belts day in and day out.... rrriiiigggghhhtttt.....
Tattoo, it's time to leave Fantasy Island

[YungChun]

right. So you're saying that your, what, 60+ years old a$$ is schooling all the 20-30 year old white belts day in and day out....

Anyone who has been doing BJJ for several years (like T has) can do that more or less.