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Thread: What the F^ck is wrong with modern martial art?

  1. #1
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    What the F^ck is wrong with modern martial art?

    In the formative years of my generation we were force fed manners. Yes sir, no mamma were the first words out of your mouth or you got the back hand. Now a day young people have no respect for adults and are openly contemptuous of elderly folks.
    Then again who can blame them. Role models are far and few between.

    And now here we are in the realm of the modern Gladiator. Steroids, tight pants some chain link and the spectacle is on. I have been trying to put a finger on where the mannerless unskilled windbags were coming from on this forum and suddenly i spied the culprit.

    The MMA Paradyne....

    Training martial skill without balancing the mind or tempering the ego.
    The rules are simple:
    Fight fight fight, kill kill kill, techniques galor, no art to speak of just entertainment for the dirty masses.

    The MMA touting buffoons who populate this forum go on about the fact that if you are not in a life or death struggle with another scantly clad steroid gladiator resisting your amorous advances then your martial art ain't real and you are waisting your time. or if you have not "fought full contact" to entertain an audience populated by blood luting cowards You suck suck suck.

    If you listen to the ones “subtly” promoting their business with "stealth" and "cunning" their arguments are so persuasive along with forum members who respect them (who in reality are their friends / business partners/ a ss pal) you might even doubt yourself since by nature we all bend to conformity to "fit in"?

    Fact is the majority of these guys are either A.) confused military paper pushers somewhere in the rear with the gear wasting military net bandwith on facebook and kungfumagazine forums, B.) disgruntled former TCMA practitioners who studied for decades giving away a fortune only to discover they learned the special “quai low” fist while their asian classmates got the real behind closed doors.. (these people do the most damage to the reputation of gung fu, well them and their greedy racists teachers.) and last but not least the C.) the martial art butterfly, cowards who lack dedication, fortitude, backbone, character, morality never stuck with any system more than a few months. A little JKD here, a few dog brothers bruises there, some bodies in motion cardio kick boxing brewed up with the pathetic aping of the good old BJJ. The biggest belly laugh is these low level skill less wannabes hanging off of the formidable Gracie nut hairs claiming greatness via proxy. History has shown us its share of great tough men who go into the world and rip out a place in the sun. Then their spoiled children who knowing only the good life matriculate into useless spineless full of noise all bark no bite shadows of their progenitors.
    To the mind that is still, the whole universe surrenders.
    -Patanjali Samadhi


    "Not engaging in ignorance is wisdom."
    ~ Bodhi


    Never miss a good chance to shut up

  2. #2
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    Part 2

    The cross road on the path in a life of martial art is where one either chooses to focus on brawn and brute force emphasizing “what works” driven by ruthless intent void of the very concept of compassion.

    These men are strong and formidable until suddenly as they age (badly) they develop back problems, hair loss, knee problems, mental illness, post traumatic stress syndrome. internal disfunction, liver cancer, followed by sudden chronic dispersion of muscular energy, deterioration of mental function followed by death.

    At this same cross road there is the choice of self cultivation via martial art. Regimen of meditation, flexibility maintenance, internal cultivation, conscious exercise in breath control, healing arts, self reflection, music studies, writing, poetry, deductive reasoning, self reflection coupled with consistent daily martial cultivation in open hand and weapons. A vast majority of these people radiate health, are calm, kind, skilled and refined in combat as the radiate compassion and empathy.

    Naturally both these examples are broad generalizations in the big picture yet I can bare witness to many friends and class mates who are healthy active fighters at 60, 70, 80 and 90+. A dear friend dedicated to martial art and yoga passed recently at 94. Very flexible and moved with energy and steadiness.

    Getting to my point:
    One of the sad things about this forum IMHO is a lack of respect in our exchanges with one another. Yes there are trolls, comedians and trouble makers that are outnumbered by gentleman practitioners and enthusiasts.

    As much as we disagree in discussion we all gather here because of our common interest in martial art. No matter what system you practice, if you have any type of skill it did not come easy. This is our bond of commonality. We can all relate from our shared experience of bitter work on the path to skill.

    Respect?
    .
    Wu De translates as a Martial Code of Conduct.

    Wu De is the Chinese martial arts code of appropriate social interaction. Ethics and etiquette is ingrained not only in the culture of China but also pervades throughout the philosophy that holds the society together.

    There are five points in Wu De: Respect, Humility, Trust, Virtue, and Honor.

    Respect (Zun Jing; 尊敬)
    The term respect means to acknowledge the feelings and interests of another in a relationship and treating the other at a standard that rules out selfish behavior. Respect is derived not by behavior but by one's attitude. Respect is appreciated as demonstrating a sense of worth or value of a person, a personal quality or ability. In martial arts, respect is the cornerstone of all the teachings of martial arts. In regards to Wu De, respect begins with the individual and manifests outward meaning that those who respect themselves as well as others will, in turn, be respected. Respect must be earned as well as displayed. This is why we bow and why we use titles.

    Humility (Qian Xu; 谦逊)

    The term humility is the quality or characteristic of a person that is unpretentious and modest. Humility comes with controlling ones pride and ego. Pride and ego are the killers of good martial arts and good character. When we allow our own pride and ego to infiltrate our rational judgment we start to make decisions based on self-pride and not solid facts. When your ego and pride take over you will become satisfied with yourself and stop thinking deeply. Try daily to display humility in everything you do. Train for yourself and not the title or color around your waist. Keep your cup of tea empty allowing yourself to always learn.
    "The taller the bamboo grows, the lower it bows." - Chinese Proverb

    Trust (Xin Yong: 信用)

    Who do you trust? Do people trust you? Trust is the belief that a person is of good character and will seek to fulfill promises, policies, ethical codes, and the law. In martial arts, we make a promise to ourselves, the school, and the teacher. When starting a school or job there are underlying trusts that both parties expect to have in place such as safety, compensation, and knowing what is in each others best interest. In martial arts it is a breach of trust to ask for more knowledge from the instructor. Excessive questioning suggests that the student knows the material well enough to advance. Advancing is at the discretion of the instructor, not the student.
    Understand that sometimes routine instruction is for your own good as it allows you to become proficient at the art. Trust the path you take is the right one. At times instruction may seem to contradict itself. Know that perceived contradiction is one-dimensional. The instruction you receive is designed to help you navigate the correct concepts of the art.

    Honor (Rong Yu; 榮譽)

    Martial art has many strong connections to honor. We honor our art, ourselves, and our ancestors by showing loyalty and having the will to train while simultaneously maintaining wisdom about our training. To give loyalty is to honor the art through belief in the practices and wisdom of the people that have lived and died in perfecting the art so that it could be passed on to future generations. We should honor the people who came before us not because they were all superior but rather as Sir Isaac Newton said: "If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants."
    Virtue (Dao De; 道德)

    The idea of virtue in Chinese thought pertains to the notion of character. Framework for this concept is given through the four classical virtues of; temperance, prudence, courage, and justice.

    Temperance is moderation. When we engage in any activity we should approach it with moderation in order to maintain rationality and balance in every facet of our world. Martial arts will enrich our life, not necessarily consume it. One of the goals in martial arts is to take the knowledge and self-discovery from the training hall and apply its principles to daily life.

    Prudence is the act of having sound judgment over all ones affairs in life. In life it is prudent to look at situations that manifest and show wisdom and insight by drawing on facts, knowledge, and experience. It is ideal to be mindful and weigh the outcome of any action.

    Courage is the ability to act when confronted by fear. Fear can be physical and mental. The former entails being frightened by the environment, a person, or a thing. The latter concerns mainly a fear of failure. With martial arts one can move through life with courage by accepting its challenges and not being tied down by fear.
    The notion of Justice has been debated for over 2500 years. A wise master asks that the individual applies justice by reviewing the facts, the research,and then taking the course of action that he/she knows within their heart as correct.
    Justice combines all virtues and components of Wu De into one application. To apply Wu De in our everyday life is being just. As martial artists we should hold ourselves to a very high standard of character.
    Lao Shi Yungeberg


    I apologize for my playful jabs at some of the most obnoxious in our group but I hope these words may act as a catalyst guide toward a more harmonious interacting in our discussions?


    Peace

    PS
    I predict this post will naturally be followed by a brigade of morons posting absolute nonsense unrelated to the original post....
    Last edited by Lokhopkuen; 11-03-2010 at 08:30 AM.
    To the mind that is still, the whole universe surrenders.
    -Patanjali Samadhi


    "Not engaging in ignorance is wisdom."
    ~ Bodhi


    Never miss a good chance to shut up

  3. #3
    I found a video of your deadly heart ripping kung fu man you were talking about. Actually this guy is even better.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5wMWY7lT1ik

  4. #4
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    1) if you dont like MMA and the guys here who study it dont reply its that simple life is too short to worry about this stuff

    2) respect my backside its the respect issue and not questioning the teacher or his methods that got TCMA into the position its in (not all TCMA but the majority of what we see out there)

    3) most of the TCMA guys i know who can fight and who i have heard about are not exactly followers if the code you talk about

    4) asking questions about how you train and why you train and asking for proof it works is hardly the worset thing in the world to do, if Dav id Rosses teacher is anything to go by the old guys did this when they were young and were not that respectiful when seeing if the prospective teacher actually had something to offer

  5. #5
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    Honestly you make some valid points and I cannot argue with a lot of what you said. However, I would not be so eager to lump all MMA fighters into a category of blood thirsty gladiators with no respect. Most fighters learn humility and respect through training, winning, and losing. It is the Tapout wearing wannabe mouthboxers who give many of them a bad name.

    It's funny, at the gym I work out at, (fitness gym, not martial arts gym) they have a heavy bag I use quite often. A lot of younger guys will come up to me and tell me about how they either train in MMA or want to train in MMA. I will listen to them, sometimes give advice if they ask, but what I always find paculiar is when they ask what I train in. I always tell them, Kung Fu. It is my base art and what I do the most of. I have trained in other arts, but Kung Fu is what I am.

    Almost all of them tell me they thought I was either a kickboxer or Muay Thai practioner. Maybe it is because they have been force fed an ideology that those two striking arts, along with boxing, are the be all end all and nothing else can get it done. Unfortunately I believe the younger generation has been brain washed into believing all traditional martia arts are worthless. So in some ways, they are only regurgitating what wrong information they were taught. Of course, the same can be said for Kung Fu and those who preach to their students how combat sports are bloodthirsty modern gladiators with no respect or humility. Just food for thought.
    "The hero and the coward both feel the same thing, but the hero projects his fear onto his opponent while the coward runs. 'Fear'. It's the same thing, but it's what you do with it that matters". -Cus D'Amato

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Iron_Eagle_76 View Post
    Honestly you make some valid points and I cannot argue with a lot of what you said. However, I would not be so eager to lump all MMA fighters into a category of blood thirsty gladiators with no respect. Most fighters learn humility and respect through training, winning, and losing. It is the Tapout wearing wannabe mouthboxers who give many of them a bad name.

    It's funny, at the gym I work out at, (fitness gym, not martial arts gym) they have a heavy bag I use quite often. A lot of younger guys will come up to me and tell me about how they either train in MMA or want to train in MMA. I will listen to them, sometimes give advice if they ask, but what I always find paculiar is when they ask what I train in. I always tell them, Kung Fu. It is my base art and what I do the most of. I have trained in other arts, but Kung Fu is what I am.

    Almost all of them tell me they thought I was either a kickboxer or Muay Thai practioner. Maybe it is because they have been force fed an ideology that those two striking arts, along with boxing, are the be all end all and nothing else can get it done. Unfortunately I believe the younger generation has been brain washed into believing all traditional martia arts are worthless. So in some ways, they are only regurgitating what wrong information they were taught. Of course, the same can be said for Kung Fu and those who preach to their students how combat sports are bloodthirsty modern gladiators with no respect or humility. Just food for thought.

    This is not the point of this thread but I am just responding to your point. The kung fu I used to train in combined elements of muay thai into it making for better kicks and elbows. This combination made for a better striking system overall.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Lokhopkuen View Post
    In the formative years of my generation we were force fed manners. Yes sir, no mamma were the first words out of your mouth or you got the back hand. Now a day young people have no respect for adults and are openly contemptuous of elderly folks.
    Then again who can blame them. Role models are far and few between.

    And now here we are in the realm of the modern Gladiator. Steroids, tight pants some chain link and the spectacle is on. I have been trying to put a finger on where the mannerless unskilled windbags were coming from on this forum and suddenly i spied the culprit.

    The MMA Paradyne....

    Training martial skill without balancing the mind or tempering the ego.
    The rules are simple:
    Fight fight fight, kill kill kill, techniques galor, no art to speak of just entertainment for the dirty masses.

    The MMA touting buffoons who populate this forum go on about the fact that if you are not in a life or death struggle with another scantly clad steroid gladiator resisting your amorous advances then your martial art ain't real and you are waisting your time. or if you have not "fought full contact" to entertain an audience populated by blood luting cowards You suck suck suck.
    LOL... there have always been systems that trained primarily for full contact... boxing, wrestling, judo, MT, Sambo.

    And guess, what? They always thought the LARPer's sucked.

    It's nothing new and it has nothing to do with MMA.

  8. #8
    Lokhopkuen,

    The martial arts are not around to teach us manners and morality about if we should fight or not.

    You mentioned that mma guys were less mannered than kung fu guys. This has nothing to do with mma. I think it is a generational thing.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by MysteriousPower View Post
    This is not the point of this thread but I am just responding to your point. The kung fu I used to train in combined elements of muay thai into it making for better kicks and elbows. This combination made for a better striking system overall.
    Muay Thai and boxing both improved techniques I had learned in Kung Fu due to their training methods. This is often the point I try to make is that Kung Fu has many of these great techniques, but other systems train them more effectively.
    "The hero and the coward both feel the same thing, but the hero projects his fear onto his opponent while the coward runs. 'Fear'. It's the same thing, but it's what you do with it that matters". -Cus D'Amato

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by MysteriousPower View Post
    I found a video of your deadly heart ripping kung fu man you were talking about. Actually this guy is even better.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5wMWY7lT1ik
    The fact that there is so much of this is the thing in TMA's is what the OP should be railing to the gods about.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iron_Eagle_76 View Post
    Honestly you make some valid points and I cannot argue with a lot of what you said. However, I would not be so eager to lump all MMA fighters into a category of blood thirsty gladiators with no respect. Most fighters learn humility and respect through training, winning, and losing. It is the Tapout wearing wannabe mouthboxers who give many of them a bad name.

    It's funny, at the gym I work out at, (fitness gym, not martial arts gym) they have a heavy bag I use quite often. A lot of younger guys will come up to me and tell me about how they either train in MMA or want to train in MMA. I will listen to them, sometimes give advice if they ask, but what I always find paculiar is when they ask what I train in. I always tell them, Kung Fu. It is my base art and what I do the most of. I have trained in other arts, but Kung Fu is what I am.

    Almost all of them tell me they thought I was either a kickboxer or Muay Thai practioner. Maybe it is because they have been force fed an ideology that those two striking arts, along with boxing, are the be all end all and nothing else can get it done. Unfortunately I believe the younger generation has been brain washed into believing all traditional martia arts are worthless. So in some ways, they are only regurgitating what wrong information they were taught. Of course, the same can be said for Kung Fu and those who preach to their students how combat sports are bloodthirsty modern gladiators with no respect or humility. Just food for thought.
    I was being camp. Tiny bit of humor
    I love all martial art, I am however a bit tired of people touting their superiority over the internet.
    To the mind that is still, the whole universe surrenders.
    -Patanjali Samadhi


    "Not engaging in ignorance is wisdom."
    ~ Bodhi


    Never miss a good chance to shut up

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Knifefighter View Post
    LOL... there have always been systems that trained primarily for full contact... boxing, wrestling, judo, MT, Sambo.

    And guess, what? They always thought the LARPer's sucked.

    It's nothing new and it has nothing to do with MMA.
    I love how you've aligned yourself with them all while having nothing to do with them.
    THAT'S LARP BUDDY BOY
    To the mind that is still, the whole universe surrenders.
    -Patanjali Samadhi


    "Not engaging in ignorance is wisdom."
    ~ Bodhi


    Never miss a good chance to shut up

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Lokhopkuen View Post
    I love how you've aligned yourself with them all while having nothing to do with them.
    THAT'S LARP BUDDY BOY
    Methinks we know who the larper is here.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frost View Post
    1) if you dont like MMA and the guys here who study it dont reply its that simple life is too short to worry about this stuff

    2) respect my backside its the respect issue and not questioning the teacher or his methods that got TCMA into the position its in (not all TCMA but the majority of what we see out there)

    3) most of the TCMA guys i know who can fight and who i have heard about are not exactly followers if the code you talk about

    4) asking questions about how you train and why you train and asking for proof it works is hardly the worset thing in the world to do, if Dav id Rosses teacher is anything to go by the old guys did this when they were young and were not that respectiful when seeing if the prospective teacher actually had something to offer
    Brother I love and respect all martial art and have dedicated myself to only one.
    I have nothing against MMA personally. Watching has been very educational.
    I do have a problem with MMA people who yammer about how bad assed they are on internet forums.

    People seem to be over looking the main thrust of my post.
    Community based on respectful mutual interest.
    To the mind that is still, the whole universe surrenders.
    -Patanjali Samadhi


    "Not engaging in ignorance is wisdom."
    ~ Bodhi


    Never miss a good chance to shut up

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Knifefighter View Post
    Methinks we know who the larper is here.
    Yea invited you to meet me and you cheesed
    To the mind that is still, the whole universe surrenders.
    -Patanjali Samadhi


    "Not engaging in ignorance is wisdom."
    ~ Bodhi


    Never miss a good chance to shut up

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