Throws of the north?

[Northwind]

I've seen recent threads within posts that bring mention of throws within TCMA (at least there's a minute thank you to mma guys), and I see people talking about them. A couple of people compare them to the Japanese arts and use Japanese terminology - for me this means nothing as I've no experience with Japanese throwing arts.

However, being a Northern Shaolin practitioner, I find a lot of throws etc. in our systems and can see that other Northern styles/sub-styles would have similar.

I guess my question is ... is this a northern thing? Or do some southern systems also have these little goodies in there as well?

[SPJ]

Shuai jiao is popular in the north. Qing court had shuai jiao camp. Most if not all northern styles also train shuai jiao. It is like tan tui incorporated in all northern styles. Moslem, Mongolian shuai jiao etc were all merged.

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[Northwind]

Although I agree that many northern styles have throws (like my original posit), I would not say that "Most if not all northern styles also train shuai jiao". That I pretty strongly disagree with (unless you are using the name of a style to represent symbolically a type of technique). The first throws etc. I learned came from Tan Tui, so I definitely like your inclusion of it here.

Still curious to know if any southern systems have this type of thing in them or not, as my exposure to southern styles is limited.

[YouKnowWho]

I've seen recent threads within posts that bring mention of throws within TCMA (at least there's a minute thank you to mma guys),

First, I brought that subject up and I'm 100% TCMA guy. There is no need to thanks to MMA guys. The "throwing skill" is not emphasized in MMA. It's emphasized in Chinese Sanshou/Sanda (1 point for kick/punch, 2 points for throw). It will be interested to list all the throws that we can find in the northern CMA system.

There are about 60 different categories of throws. IMO, the Longfist, Mantis, and Taiji have the following categories throws.

1. 踢(Ti) Forward kick
2. 撮(Cuo) Scooping kick
3. 撞T(Zhuang) runk hitting
4, 靠(Kao) Advance squeeze
5. 彈(Tan) Spring
6. 穿(Chuan) Fireman's carry
7. 扣(Kou) Knee Seize
8. 切(Qie) Front cut
9. 撳(Qin) press

Can someone help me to extend this list?

[Northwind]

Well that's awesome!
Unfortunately, I don't know what those mean. I never learned many of the poetic or Chinese names for the movements within the forms (and am trying to pick them up as time goes on, via avenues such as this). Do you have any youtubes you could point me to in reference to the different names?

That way I can say to myself, well this move is actually called blah blah, so no need for me to mention it - as it's already been done. But if it's something different I can say this is a throw we do, but I have no name for it (and perhaps you/others can tell me the proper name).

[YouKnowWho]

May be it's easier the other way around. We can describe a TCMA throw and then we try to map to the category name. This way we can see how many throws that we have.

For example, the Mantis "waist chop" can be executed in 3 different ways.

- 切(Qie) Front cut
- 撮(Cuo) Scooping kick
- 踢(Ti) Forward kick

[bawang]

i think its a northern thing man. i think southern kung fu is afraid of physical touching
mongolian and manchu dominate wrestling.

[YouKnowWho]

mongolian and manchu dominate wrestling.

I would call that "muslim Chinese" dominate SC instead. The 3 major SC branches in China are Beijing, Tianjin, and Baoding (all in Hebei province). Almost 100% muslim Chinese trained SC in those 3 major cities. The Chinese muslim call SC as "the monority Chinese self-defense skill".

[bawang]

I would call that "muslim Chinese" dominate SC instead. The 3 major SC branches in China are Beijing, Tianjin, and Baoding (all in Hopei province). Almost 100% muslim Chinese trained SC in those 3 major cities. The Chinese muslim call SC as "the monority Chinese self-defense skill".

wow man relly? thats coo. i always thought manchus dominated beijing with buku.
but at least for modern times mongolians dominate wrestling. lots of sanda and shuaijiao champs come from inner mongolia mang.

[Violent Designs]

northern china > southern china.

northern food > southern food.

northern women > southern women.

northern weather > southern weather (the north has real seasons, the south is just hot and sh1t)

i don't need to go on anymore.

[Yum Cha]

YouKnowWho,
What do you know about arm drags, and pulling "sok sau"(?) techniques. They are not really throws, but its close....

I think this is more common in the Southern styles, but very under utilised.

[YouKnowWho]

Not sure what you mean "Sok Sau". The arm drags or pulling (Like Taiji LU?) should belong to the "撳(Qin) - press, downward pulling" category. Most of the pulling (arm drag) needs to be combined with leg movement. That leg movement then define what kind of throw that you are using. For example, you can drag your opponent's arm and "spring" one of his leg. That throw will be categoried as 彈(Tan) Spring. This is just like the Taiji "push" is not a throw. But you can add "push" along with your leg movement such as hook, scoop, trap, cut, ... This is why a Taiji guy's "push" can only push his opponent away, and cannot throw his opponent down becuase he did not control his opponent's legs.

[YouKnowWho]

Do you have any youtubes you could point me to in reference to the different names?

David C. K. Lin in Atlanta, GA has a new book that may have everything that you need if you are interesting in the Chinese throwing art.

http://combatshuaichiao.com/merchandise.html

[Yum Cha]

Not sure what you mean "Sok Sau". The arm drags or pulling (Like Taiji LU?) should belong to the "撳(Qin) - press, downward pulling" category. Most of the pulling (arm drag) needs to be combined with leg movement. That leg movement then define what kind of throw that you are using. For example, you can drag your opponent's arm and "spring" one of his leg. That throw will be categoried as 彈(Tan) Spring. This is just like the Taiji "push" is not a throw. But you can add "push" along with your leg movement such as hook, scoop, trap, cut, ... This is why a Taiji guy's "push" can only push his opponent away, and cannot throw his opponent down becuase he did not control his opponent's legs.

Sok sau, sorry for my abysmal Canto, is like a twitching pull. You have grip, then you jerk inward quickly. it practically feels like someone is pulling your arm out of the socket...

If you sink it low, the acceleration and change in direction pulls people off balance. Integrating foot checking, or attacking would make it ruthless! ouch!

[Yum Cha]

Another Chin na question....

Do you grab with the thumb, first and second finger, or with the thumb and the last three fingers, with a loose index? Or does it vary?