Wing Chun groundfighting

[Eric_H]

The ground is a different world. While some of the concepts from TCMA can apply, there are different fundamentals that have to be learned. Without those you are just as likely to do the exact wrong thing in a situation as opposed to the right thing.

+1

Learning grappling after doing CMA for a while isn't that hard. The mechanics are different but the ideas of disrupting/controlling balance and getting better leverage are constant in both.

CMA wants to stand up, wrestling wants to stay down, that's the big strategy difference.

[Wayfaring]

Yes. MY WC school is a Machado BJJ affiliate.

I saw Rigan Machado about a month ago - he was out here doing a seminar for some of the guys I train with for 3 days. He's got tons of ground knowledge. He's nowhere near in fighting shape lately, but was just fooling around demonstrating a mounted triangle while talking not even locking it up at all, and you've got a purple belt passing out from the pressure. Great sequence of moves he taugth during the seminar, and he always gives tests at his seminars with penalties for not getting stuff right. Great stuff and he's totally fun to go out to dinner with too - stories upon stories. Laid back fun guy.

Here's a clip of one of his grappling matches at a Sambo tournament in 1994 - just for fun.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-1kbLTOkYww

WCK guys - that's the quality of person you need teaching your ground fundamentals.

[Wayfaring]

+1

Learning grappling after doing CMA for a while isn't that hard. The mechanics are different but the ideas of disrupting/controlling balance and getting better leverage are constant in both.

CMA wants to stand up, wrestling wants to stay down, that's the big strategy difference.

It's kind of fun and a good workout if you have a little extra time outside of normal training. Get someone with good fundamentals though that can make you pay for mistakes.

The strategy thing goes back and forth. Wrestlers dictate the pace, strikers get better at takedown defense and blending striking. Some of the best fighters nowadays have wrestling and ground background with improved standup - like Cain Velasquez. When the skill level in takedowns and ground defense evens out, then striking becomes king again. Fighting against better people is as much exploiting skill mismatches as anything else.

But if you train across a decent pool of talent, you can deal with different strategies.

[Hardwork108]

The ground is a different world. While some of the concepts from TCMA can apply, there are different fundamentals that have to be learned. Without those you are just as likely to do the exact wrong thing in a situation as opposed to the right thing.

It depends on what TCMA principles you are using and how you are training them.

Also, typically the "concept" stuff wrestlers have been doing since they were in middle school.

Interesting, perhaps I should frequent wrestling forums to find out about them....

[Wayfaring]

It depends on what TCMA principles you are using and how you are training them.

So you are proficient in ground skills then? From your WCK background? How do you fare when testing out your training in a standard BJJ school on the ground?

Interesting, perhaps I should frequent wrestling forums to find out about them....

No, it's never necessary to look to any other form of martial art for answers. Just blindly follow your sifu and what he tells you. Never ask him to prove his ground skills.

Also ignore the fact that Yip Man and other very well known WCK sifus have studied multiple arts as they interacted with one another and exchanged ideas, training and expertise.

And while you are at it, make sure that anyone asking about WCK "groundfighting" never explores anything outside their little clique of approved martial arts.

Because a bigoted view is a pure view, right?

[Hardwork108]

So you are proficient in ground skills then? From your WCK background? How do you fare when testing out your training in a standard BJJ school on the ground?

I have never claimed to be "proficient" in ground skills. I have said that the Mainland Chinese WC curriculum has ground fighting practice as a part of its traditional methodology.

Unfortunately, I had to move countries before I covered that area, and nowadays whenever I travel and meet sifu, I concentrate on polishing up what I already know. All this does not change the fact that various TCMAs address the groundfighting scenarios!

No, it's never necessary to look to any other form of martial art for answers. Just blindly follow your sifu and what he tells you. Never ask him to prove his ground skills.

If you have any doubts about the skills of any TCMA sifu, you are free to go to their kwoon (kung fu schools) and challenge them!

Also ignore the fact that Yip Man and other very well known WCK sifus have studied multiple arts as they interacted with one another and exchanged ideas, training and expertise.

Very true, Yip Man was very well known for his BJJ skills.....

And while you are at it, make sure that anyone asking about WCK "groundfighting" never explores anything outside their little clique of approved martial arts.

They can "explore" anything they like, but IMHO, they should first concisley explore the art of Wing Chun, before they go onto "improving" it.

Because a bigoted view is a pure view, right?

You need to have a pure view of Wing Chun if you wish to improve it, because pure view will imply concise understanding of this profound art.

[Wayfaring]

I have never claimed to be "proficient" in ground skills. I have said that the Mainland Chinese WC curriculum has ground fighting practice as a part of its traditional methodology.

Unfortunately, I had to move countries before I covered that area, and nowadays whenever I travel and meet sifu, I concentrate on polishing up what I already know. All this does not change the fact that various TCMAs address the groundfighting scenarios!

So clearly here on this thread you are running your mouth with zero skill to back it up. So if you have no proficiency in ground fighting, why are you polluting up this thread? Oh, to spread rumor and fantasy stories?

If you have any doubts about the skills of any TCMA sifu, you are free to go to their kwoon (kung fu schools) and challenge them!

Sounds great. Where is the kwoon you train at located? Address and sifu's name? I'll start there.

Very true, Yip Man was very well known for his BJJ skills.....

So Yip never crosstrained in anything? Hmmmmmmmm.

They can "explore" anything they like, but IMHO, they should first concisley explore the art of Wing Chun, before they go onto "improving" it.

You need to have a pure view of Wing Chun if you wish to improve it, because pure view will imply concise understanding of this profound art.

Everyone's journey is their own. Trying to dictate whether someone drills deep first or develops breadth is short-sighted.

[YungChun]

Sounds great. Where is the kwoon you train at located? Address and sifu's name? I'll start there.

LOL --- Don't forget to YouTube that match..

The problem is that more often than not the student is not highly skilled (why he's looking for a teacher) so a challenge would prove nothing..

Teachers with fighting experience may offer some way of verifying their skills.. Many modern CMA Sifu don't/can't..

So Yip never crosstrained in anything? Hmmmmmmmm.

What I have been told by most older TCMA Sifu is, "Never just do one style.."

Everyone's journey is their own. Trying to dictate whether someone drills deep first or develops breadth is short-sighted.

Most don't do deep or breadth..

[Hardwork108]

So clearly here on this thread you are running your mouth with zero skill to back it up. So if you have no proficiency in ground fighting, why are you polluting up this thread? Oh, to spread rumor and fantasy stories?

There is nothing "fantasy" about the existance of ground fighting and grappling in the TCMAs, and that is the point.

If I had said that there were effective low kicks in Wing Chun, would you base the validity of that statement on wether I could use those kicks or not?

Sounds great. Where is the kwoon you train at located? Address and sifu's name? I'll start there.

My Wing Chun sifu is in South America. If you are planning to fly over there for a challenge match, I would suggest that you polish up your skills to first be able to survive an anarmed fight with the fourteen year old gang members, before you go on to challenge martial arts instructors....LOL,LOL,LOL!

So Yip never crosstrained in anything? Hmmmmmmmm.

If he did cross train, then I would hazard a guess that he did in another TCMA, which would have been relevant to his core style. He would also have understood his core art before going on to improve it!

Everyone's journey is their own.

Yes, very true, and may your "journey" to the MMA forum be a fruitful one.

[SoCo KungFu]

I have never claimed to be "proficient" in ground skills. I have said that the Mainland Chinese WC curriculum has ground fighting practice as a part of its traditional methodology.

Unfortunately, I had to move countries before I covered that area, and nowadays whenever I travel and meet sifu, I concentrate on polishing up what I already know. All this does not change the fact that various TCMAs address the groundfighting scenarios!

So you have never seen this WC groundfighting then eh...

There is nothing "fantasy" about the existance of ground fighting and grappling in the TCMAs, and that is the point.

If I had said that there were effective low kicks in Wing Chun, would you base the validity of that statement on wether I could use those kicks or not?

You have by your own admission absolutely zero experience in this topic. You keep stammering on about the TCMA groundfighting that you have never even learned. Do go to some wrestling forums. You need the exposure...

[Frost]

There is nothing "fantasy" about the existance of ground fighting and grappling in the TCMAs, and that is the point.

If I had said that there were effective low kicks in Wing Chun, would you base the validity of that statement on wether I could use those kicks or not?



My Wing Chun sifu is in South America. If you are planning to fly over there for a challenge match, I would suggest that you polish up your skills to first be able to survive an anarmed fight with the fourteen year old gang members, before you go on to challenge martial arts instructors....LOL,LOL,LOL!



If he did cross train, then I would hazard a guess that he did in another TCMA, which would have been relevant to his core style. He would also have understood his core art before going on to improve it!





Yes, very true, and may your "journey" to the MMA forum be a fruitful one.

actually he asked where you trained now so he could pop by...do tell ;o)

[t_niehoff]

actually he asked where you trained now so he could pop by...do tell ;o)

He doesn't train except in his fantasy.

[Wayfaring]

My Wing Chun sifu is in South America. If you are planning to fly over there for a challenge match, I would suggest that you polish up your skills to first be able to survive an anarmed fight with the fourteen year old gang members, before you go on to challenge martial arts instructors....LOL,LOL,LOL!

Oh dear precious baby Jesus on a pogo stick.

So we have this narrowed down to at least a continent. Not my continent, but it's a start.

But before I roll with your sifu I need to "survive an anarmed[sic] fight with fourteen year old gang members" ???

Does "anarmed" mean they have AK-47's? Or is it that I have to survive the kids class at your school first? Can you tell you have me shaking in fear here?

I could point out that a simpler solution is that Brazil actually also is in South America. And ask how your Wing Chun sifu fares rolling with people at Gracie Barra in Rio. But that might actually involve some logic and common sense, so I'll avoid doing that.

[monji112000]

does your school cover any groundfighting techiniques/escapes etc....

I always here people say power comes from the ground, So if your on your back on the floor surely your wing chun should be good on the floor????

Its great your school is doing something different. I am always look for someone who does Shuai Jiao, or even a tournament... I worked out with a friend who did Mongolian wrestling. I'm intrigued by Sumo, and would love to travel to Japan to devote time to learning it.

The real trick is go out and test yourself. register for a local grappling tournament, and work on applying your skill and adapting to make things work. Don't get discouraged by people who will jump all over you for trying something out of the box. The other thing to worry about is keeping an open mind and constantly learning.

JMO

[Hardwork108]

So you have never seen this WC groundfighting then eh...

Of course, I have seen it, as practiced by sifu and his senior students. It is you who have not seen it, now that is a little different....

You have by your own admission absolutely zero experience in this topic. You keep stammering on about the TCMA groundfighting that you have never even learned.

The point is that it exists.

Look, this is a simple point, some TCMAs address ground fighting!

So I don't know why it is refusing to sink in, as far as you guys are concerned?

Do go to some wrestling forums. You need the exposure...

Unfortunately, in this case, "the mountain has come to Mohammed"...