street fighting / self defense myth

[MightyB]

In regards to a recent thread about sport training vs street training.

The martial arts notion of street fighting or self defense is built on a myth. What we normally call street fighting or self defense is nothing more than bully defense. For that, TCMA is as good as anything else.

True self defense doesn't require a lot of training... it's a mental state built on the realization of what crime is and what types of patterns of behavior criminals fall into. It's a rehearsed mental plan built on survival and escape. I suggest that all of you read a copy of Sanford Strong's "Strong on Survival" book. Only then can any martial arts training begin to address the needs of real street survival.

Don't believe me... talk to a cop. Ask them about their last three rape or homicide cases involving a predator with a random victim. Standard and antiquated martial arts training would've been useless in those situations.

[Iron_Eagle_76]

I believe awareness is the best method of self defense in "street" regards. Putting yourself in bad situations and thinking before you act are the best things to do. If you work late at night and park in an isolated area, walk do your vehicles in groups or have security escort you. Stay away from bad neighborhoods, especially after dark.

These are just a few things but I believe go along way in what self defense really is. Often if someone is getting robbed someone who is stupid and trying to play hero is going to get killed if the perp has a weapon, especially a gun. Some money or a few credit cards is not worth your life, give it to them than call the police. Instinct will generally let you know if they intend to harm you no matter what.

[hskwarrior]

The martial arts notion of street fighting or self defense is built on a myth.

what MYTH?

Putting yourself in bad situations and thinking before you act are the best things to do. If you work late at night and park in an isolated area, walk do your vehicles in groups or have security escort you. Stay away from bad neighborhoods, especially after dark.

ALL this takes to achieve is common sense. Awareness to ME is always be prepare and be ready for the worst. And if you are the chosen person of some psycho who wants to kill someone you're prepared to FIGHT for you life. not everyone will FIGHT for their lives, MANY will lay down and let someone just KILL em.

Some money or a few credit cards is not worth your life, give it to them than call the police. Instinct will generally let you know if they intend to harm you no matter what.

what would YOU do knowing that if you were robbed by someone with a gun and you know that there is a huge chance you're not gonna make it through this regardless if you put up a fight? are you just going to let the dude kill you? or maybe FIGHT for you life?

[David Jamieson]

My view is that it comes down to training.

We train.

Then we are faced with either:

using that training in a conflict on the street or using that training in a competition in a venue.

In the long run, what we do in between those moments of conflict is simply train.

If you train, you increase your chances of surviving a conflict on the street and your chances of winning a competition.

if you don't train, you can still take your chances on the street and even in competition but the odds are stacked against you for not training.

In the meantime, from the smallest person starting out to the greatest fighter of all time, for the most part, we are just training.

There are no guarantees that even with extreme hard work and diligence and attention to everything you need to address will have you succeed.

But they sure help you get there.

[Iron_Eagle_76]

what MYTH?



ALL this takes to achieve is common sense. Awareness to ME is always be prepare and be ready for the worst. And if you are the chosen person of some psycho who wants to kill someone you're prepared to FIGHT for you life. not everyone will FIGHT for their lives, MANY will lay down and let someone just KILL em.



what would YOU do knowing that if you were robbed by someone with a gun and you know that there is a huge chance you're not gonna make it through this regardless if you put up a fight? are you just going to let the dude kill you? or maybe FIGHT for you life?

Most armed robbers are not going to risk a life sentence by killing you. This is why most will wear a mask and cover their faces to avoid you identifying them. The most dangerous of these is a drug addict jonesing for his next score who does not care, that you need to worry about. As I said, training and instinct are what you are going to fall back on and use your best judgement. Dumb a**ss people who want to act like Charles Bronson are the ones who often take a bullet over something petty.

[David Jamieson]

Most armed robbers are not going to risk a life sentence by killing you. This is why most will wear a mask and cover their faces to avoid you identifying them. The most dangerous of these is a drug addict jonesing for his next score who does not care, that you need to worry about. As I said, training and instinct are what you are going to fall back on and use your best judgement. Dumb a**ss people who want to act like Charles Bronson are the ones who often take a bullet over something petty.

It doesn't really matter what the percentages are here don't you think.

If someone walks up with a gun or a knife and asks you for your wallet, the best thing you can do is give it to him. You have no idea what's in his mind and we are incapable of guessing correctly 100% of the time.

we can make all sorts of assumptions about what could be, what might be, but reality dictates that the best defense in a situation where your attacker clearly has it stacked for him, then give it up.

[Iron_Eagle_76]

It doesn't really matter what the percentages are here don't you think.

If someone walks up with a gun or a knife and asks you for your wallet, the best thing you can do is give it to him. You have no idea what's in his mind and we are incapable of guessing correctly 100% of the time.

we can make all sorts of assumptions about what could be, what might be, but reality dictates that the best defense in a situation where your attacker clearly has it stacked for him, then give it up.

Agreed. As I said, no amount of money or any other petty belongings is worth your life.

[hskwarrior]

Most armed robbers are not going to risk a life sentence by killing you. This is why most will wear a mask and cover their faces to avoid you identifying them. The most dangerous of these is a drug addict jonesing for his next score who does not care, that you need to worry about. As I said, training and instinct are what you are going to fall back on and use your best judgement. Dumb a**ss people who want to act like Charles Bronson are the ones who often take a bullet over something petty.

i don't know where you get that idea from but dude Read the news papers from the bay area and you'll see what i'm talking about. i'm not bumping my gums just to bump my gums. Do you wanna know what the saddest thing in the world is to me? is a bunch a teenagers playing in their drive way to have a carload of dudes get out of the car with some serious hardware. they intended to rob the kids but the kids didn't have no money and EVERYONE was shot dead right in their drive way. They didn't have NOTHING to steal but their lives and these cowards took these kids lives for NO fukkin reason. THATs sad.

Here in San Francisco a man and his son were murdered simply for taking too long a a stop light. DUDE, i don't know where you live but out here in SF it's not like what you saying.

[MightyB]

what MYTH?
what would YOU do knowing that if you were robbed by someone with a gun and you know that there is a huge chance you're not gonna make it through this regardless if you put up a fight? are you just going to let the dude kill you? or maybe FIGHT for you life?

Actually this is the correct response for how things are going. This is a survivor's mindset.

The situation for a street robbery works like this... guy with gun asks for your wallet, throw it to his feet and run. DO NOT throw it in the bushes or anything stupid because if he's hopped up and annoyed, he'll shoot. Don't hand it to him, 'cuz, if it's not a robbery - he'll grab you. Throw it to his feet and run. If he shoots - he wanted you, not your property. Most likely he'll pick it up and run the other way.

[MightyB]

i don't know where you get that idea from but dude Read the news papers from the bay area and you'll see what i'm talking about. i'm not bumping my gums just to bump my gums. Do you wanna know what the saddest thing in the world is to me? is a bunch a teenagers playing in their drive way to have a carload of dudes get out of the car with some serious hardware. they intended to rob the kids but the kids didn't have no money and EVERYONE was shot dead right in their drive way. They didn't have NOTHING to steal but their lives and these cowards took these kids lives for NO fukkin reason. THATs sad.

Here in San Francisco a man and his son were murdered simply for taking too long a a stop light. DUDE, i don't know where you live but out here in SF it's not like what you saying.

This is also true. This is why YOU DON'T COMPLY. Too often people are told to comply with the rapist or the home invader. DON'T. You must Escape, or create a diversion for your family to escape. This means you will be hurt... or you may die.

Again - Read "Strong on Survival" for the new rules for surviving street crime. This is why hskwarrior I say that what is currently being taught is myth or bully defense.

Recidivists will most always kill. Do you know why prisoners work out? They're in training. They also train dirty boxing and effective shank/knife work. What they're training and what we're training is not equal. Theirs is reality based.

[Iron_Eagle_76]

i don't know where you get that idea from but dude Read the news papers from the bay area and you'll see what i'm talking about. i'm not bumping my gums just to bump my gums. Do you wanna know what the saddest thing in the world is to me? is a bunch a teenagers playing in their drive way to have a carload of dudes get out of the car with some serious hardware. they intended to rob the kids but the kids didn't have no money and EVERYONE was shot dead right in their drive way. They didn't have NOTHING to steal but their lives and these cowards took these kids lives for NO fukkin reason. THATs sad.

Here in San Francisco a man and his son were murdered simply for taking too long a a stop light. DUDE, i don't know where you live but out here in SF it's not like what you saying.

I'm not arguing with you man. I'm sure things are that bad. But I am saying awareness is still the best option. How the hell do you prepare for a drive-by? First step is not to be in an area where they are prominent. I know this is not always possible depending on where you live, but in the end if I am in an area that bad I'm not going anywhere if Im not packing heat. Period.

I live in the country, very rural setting, so we don't have the problems like you speak of with gangs and such that bad, they are here but not like in your area. One of the great equalizers is it quite easy to get a concealed weapons permit here and lots of folks carry guns, and nearly all families have guns at their homes which prevents a lot of break ins. Different mentality living in the sticks. You go on someone's property and mess around you are likely to end up shot and in the morgue or buried on a mountain in the middle of nowhere. But like I said, different area, different scenerio.

[sanjuro_ronin]

This is also true. This is why YOU DON'T COMPLY. Too often people are told to comply with the rapist or the home invader. DON'T. You must Escape, or create a diversion for your family to escape. This means you will be hurt... or you may die.

Again - Read "Strong on Survival" for the new rules for surviving street crime. This is why hskwarrior I say that what is currently being taught is myth or bully defense.

Recidivists will most always kill. Do you know why prisoners work out? They're in training. They also train dirty boxing and effective shank/knife work. What they're training and what we're training is not equal. Theirs is reality based.

A little too much truth there.
The majority of professional criminals that are thieves are NOT that dangerous, they don't wanna kill anyone, they just want their goods.
BUT you can't know that, so be prepared to take it to the next level is you have no choice.

[MightyB]

I'm not arguing with you man. I'm sure things are that bad. But I am saying awareness is still the best option. How the hell do you prepare for a drive-by? First step is not to be in an area where they are prominent. I know this is not always possible depending on where you live, but in the end if I am in an area that bad I'm not going anywhere if Im not packing heat. Period.

I live in the country, very rural setting, so we don't have the problems like you speak of with gangs and such that bad, they are here but not like in your area. One of the great equalizers is it quite easy to get a concealed weapons permit here and lots of folks carry guns, and nearly all families have guns at their homes which prevents a lot of break ins. Different mentality living in the sticks. You go on someone's property and mess around you are likely to end up shot and in the morgue or buried on a mountain in the middle of nowhere. But like I said, different area, different scenerio.

Awareness is key... but what I guess I'm talking about is more for when the crap hit the fan and you're in it. CCWs are the best. Also pepper spray if you carry it in your hand when your out.

The biggest disadvantage that the homeowner has is that the criminal invader gets to choose the time of the attack. This is actually a Sun Tzu tactic by the way. By not being aware of the attack - the victim may not be able to secure and load their weapon. That's why we should all prepare an escape plan and drill it. The escape plan can be the same as a fire escape plan. You should make it a habit to identify at least two points of escape from every situation you're in. Also, drill it in your family that their duty is to escape... especially your children. Most home invaders seek to isolate and bind the biggest males and adults first - so in those first few seconds, a child has the best chance to escape. They may feel guilty, but tell them the importance of escaping, because if they don't they'll be used as a weapon against the parents, and that by escaping, they'll be able to contact help.

[hskwarrior]

How the hell do you prepare for a drive-by?

@ Iron_Eagle. Honestly? A street fighter or street thug has this ability to scan the environment while talking to you. They eyes are trained to see things out of the ordinary. drive-bys usually happen at night. First thing you notice is the car with no head lights. that's when you senses go into action. If the car in your neighborhood is cruising too slowly you pay attention. First thing street folks know to do during a drive by is HIT THE GROUND and don't come up till the shooting stops.

It's a mental thing to prepare for a drive by. For one, if you're looking for it to take place (even if it doesn't) you're more aware than the family in their front yard drinking a beer. you may have that one split second to run for cover. but, if you live your lives believing NONE OF THIS will happen to you then it really WILL.

Other than knowing the signs of an eminent drive by the only thing you can do it take cover and keep your guard up at all times. its when your guard is down that something bad will happen to you.

[hskwarrior]

The majority of professional criminals that are thieves are NOT that dangerous, they don't wanna kill anyone, they just want their goods.

that might be geographical. because out here in the bay area typically when guns come into play for any reason people die. i WISH i lived where you do cause if live is like that where you live....i won't ever worry about a guy robbing me. i'll give him the money and just be on my way. LMAO.