street fighting / self defense myth

[MightyB]

http://www.hillsdale.net/newsnow/x29...sexual-assault

The only difference in this invasion scenario and most others is they didn't burn down the house with everyone in it. Most of these go down like this - thugs break into home. They isolate and bind the males (all the while telling the victims do as I say and you won't get hurt). They then bind the females to beds. they beat the males to death savagely, and they rape the women. They then murder the victims because since they have priors and invasion with a weapon, plus kidnap, and rape really up the ante so to speak... they don't want witnesses. They then burn down the house to try to cover the evidence of the crime.

[hskwarrior]

people just don't fight back when knowing they're going to be killed anyway. i don't know why.

[MightyB]

people just don't fight back when knowing they're going to be killed anyway. i don't know why.

Because they want to believe that they won't get hurt if they do what the criminal says. The worst thing is that the news and stupid uninformed rural police officers tell people that they should just do what the criminal is asking. Man - I remember seeing some dumb arsed cop on NBC telling people with a bullet pointed list things like in case of a home invasion, "make them feel like honored guests, humanize yourself to the assailant, do nothing to provoke them" BULL S**t. Man - that is such the wrong advice. This is in response to the home invasion where the doctors house was burnt with him and his wife and children still in it. They savagely beat the man after having the wife help bind him, and then they raped and murdered both women and the 11 year girl before burning the house down. It's the one that was just on national news. Does the MO sound familiar? Heck yes. They did it according to the criminal home invasion handbook. Everyone should've bolted as soon as the a-holes kicked in the door! Or fought tooth and nail to the death making the perps pay in blood for anything they took!

[hskwarrior]

There is also a story of a home invasion where all of the people were tied up and blind folded and all lined up next to each other side by side. and they all just sat there on their knee's as the robbers shot each person one after the other. can you imagine knowing the person next to you is going to be killed and you're next? i'd freak the fuk out and if he's going to kill me he's gonna have to work for it.

[Yum Cha]

I think self defence and personal security are bedfellows, but quite different.

Situational awareness, resources, tactical postures, aftermath - all relate to an engagement.

Once you put up your 'dukes', the game is well past half way, this is a mindset. Anybody who has lived on the street has the eye. You can recognise the cops first, their cars, shoes, hangouts. You know where the predators are, what they look like, and more importantly ,when they are hungry. You recognise the signs, and you act proactively, you don't just respond. You follow fundamental behaviours because they are your training to read the street. Where you sit, how much eye contact, when to flair and when to fold, and how to use your wits.

You can't control your environment at all times, but you can capture advantages and work them like you own them.

Living in a danger zone is a lot different than the comfortable shores of Oz, I can tell you for sure.

Thanks Frank and Mighty B for keeping it real. In this world of guns and gangs. Fighting it out is a last resort - but at least you have it.

[hskwarrior]

Thanks Frank and Mighty B for keeping it real. In this world of guns and gangs. Fighting it out is a last resort - but at least you have it.

the best way to keep it is REAL.....it was cool having a decent conversation for once.

[Jimbo]

Yeah, thanks guys, for a good thread.

Situational awareness is so important. Some people say, "Aren't you paranoid, having to be aware like that all the time?" Which to me is ridiculous. When awareness becomes a habit, it's not being paranoid; it's simple common sense. Like being aware when you're driving, it becomes second nature. It becomes a part of you and requires little effort. If someone's too mentally lazy to do even that, there's not much help for them.

[gunbeatskroty]

Recidivists will most always kill. Do you know why prisoners work out? They're in training. They also train dirty boxing and effective shank/knife work. What they're training and what we're training is not equal. Theirs is reality based.

Totally disagree. Sports Muay Thai is dirtier than any kind of "dirty boxing". What's illegal in sports MT fights (no strikes to the knees, kicks to the back above the butt, back of the head, throat, nuts, etc) is really no big feat to transfer onto the streets.

Musclebound guys with no training that walks into our dojo gets whooped just like any other newbie Whitebelt. Then there's the myth about military people being tougher or w/e. Without training, they tap out just like any other Whitebelts ...Marines, Army Ranger, Army, w/e....they tap no matter how many tours they've been through in Iraq, Afghanistan, etc.

And training to shank someone...ok, in MMA we don't bother with that. But I trained in Traditional Japanese Jiu-Jitsu where we worked with knives once a week, mostly to disarm. I don't see how it's any different from some inmate in prison (except better due to better techniques) since we train & spar to also kill with the blade. And if I train & condition my body to punch hard, fast, etc. along with footwork to dodge, find angles, etc... religiously every week and testing my skills vs. not just bags & pads but other sparring partners who moves & hit back.....and now I get to hold a knife in my hand....how is it much different than punching except now, with a huge advantage being the knife? How would some inmate or streetfighter's training be any more superior?

Inmates don't get into 1 on 1 shank fights everyday if ever at all. It's usually a surprise attack in prison or a mob vs. 1 guy. Anyone can walk into any dojo and kill the master instructor by surprise (while he's eating lunch, holding his baby, w/e) if they wanted to with a shank....but it doesn't mean that they're well trained nor an awesome streetfighter, etc.

[MightyB]

Inmates don't get into 1 on 1 shank fights everyday if ever at all. It's usually a surprise attack in prison or a mob vs. 1 guy. Anyone can walk into any dojo and kill the master instructor by surprise (while he's eating lunch, holding his baby, w/e) if they wanted to with a shank....but it doesn't mean that they're well trained nor an awesome streetfighter, etc.

You almost get it ... almost.


Bully defense isn't street self defense. That's the whole point of this thread. People mistake the two. That's why I call it the Street Fighting / Self Defense myth.

[Emeraldphoenix]

Karate instructor walks out of his Dojo one night, hears a women screaming. He turns and sees a woman getting smacked around by a very large guy. The man is beating and forcing her into his car. Instructor goes to help woman feeling it is his duty to help. Man pulls gun and instructor walks back into his Dojo and calls police.

[Frost]

A little too much truth there.
The majority of professional criminals that are thieves are NOT that dangerous, they don't wanna kill anyone, they just want their goods.
BUT you can't know that, so be prepared to take it to the next level is you have no choice.

this is true for where i come from as well, and i think it comes down to personal expereince and where as to how you feel about this myth, if where you live you are more likely to come accross the bully that what mighty is talking about then is it a myth from your point of view?


If i lived in an area were this kind of thing you are talking about happens more often than not then any form of martial art would be the last thing on my mind, weapons, either bladed or firearms would be on my person and situated around the house, i would look to avoid any and all places that were known hot spots i would do what i could to keep my family safe and i would look to move out as soon as possible

[MightyB]

If i lived in an area were this kind of thing you are talking about happens more often than not then any form of martial art would be the last thing on my mind, weapons, either bladed or firearms would be on my person and situated around the house, i would look to avoid any and all places that were known hot spots i would do what i could to keep my family safe and i would look to move out as soon as possible

Whether you like it or not, violent crime is coming to your home town. As a matter of fact, watch your local news and newspapers. Start looking for home invasions, armed robberies, rapes, car jacking, drug related murders etc. Guess what - if you live in America, it's in your news. I posted a link to a home invasion / rape situation that happened in Hillsdale / nowhere Michigan just a couple of weeks ago earlier in this thread. If you're serious about self defense, learn how criminals operate. Don't pay attention to what a newscast will lie to you about even if they have a cop acting as an expert because they'll give you the worst advice... "do what the criminal wants, put your mind elsewhere if he's raping you, don't fight back" WRONG WRONG WRONG... Read "Strong on Defense". It'll change how you train. Also, watch "What If" on Spike TV http://www.spike.com/show/39395

[Lee Chiang Po]

In the 60's and 70's in Louisiana the punishment for murder was life in prison, no parole. Armed robbery was also life in prison with no parole. All sentences for seperate crimes ran concurant. You only served one life sentence. After all, you are meant to die in prison. So, in light of this, murder was a freebee. If you robbed with a weapon, armed robbery, you could kill and get no more for it. The added benefit might be that since there are no witnesses you might get by with it. If you worked in a fast food, convenience store, service station, and especially at night, you stood a very good chance of being murdered. Harold Fung was checking out at a convenience store one night and the young man at the counter pulled out a gun and robbed the clerk. As he passed the money over to him he raised the gun and shot him in the face. He actually survived though. Harold instantly reached over and took the gun from the boys hand and shot him twice in the chest. The kid started running but could not seem to locate the front door. Meanwhile there was another shot in back, and out came another kid. He had just shot the manager in the head and killed him, but Harold was standing there looking at him when he came out. He promptly shot him twice in the chest. Both robbers were still alive and the second one was begging for help. Harold stood and watched both of them expire before calling the police. Several witnesses were there and none of them seen a thing. Anyone else might have stood there and gotten shot too, but Harold is a very strong gung fu man, as is his twin brother, Reginald. The technique he used to disarm the guy was just an old standard technique taught in many different styles. He says he and Reggie trained it regularly. I have no doubt that the police would have found a store full of dead witnesses had Harold not been there that night.