Building a TCMA Library Thread.

[MightyB]

Ok everyone - it's time to list your favorite TCMA books for building a TCMA reference library.

Ground rules: List a MAM link for purchasing the book whenever it's possible because we should be supporting our forum sponsors. If it's not available through MAM, just put the link where we can find it.

Here's one of my favorites: http://www.martialartsmart.com/b-ww005.html
Kung Fu Elements. It's filled with a lot of basic and foundation exercises and philosophies that are good to know and drill. Plus, the Appendix of styles at the end is an awesome reference source.

[MightyB]

http://www.martialartsmart.com/b-ym36x.html
Great overview of Chin Na.

[-N-]

My favorite Chin Na books.

http://www.amazon.com/Practical-Chin...pr_product_top

http://www.amazon.com/Simplified-Cap...9488991&sr=8-1

[-N-]

Not Chinese, but in reality there is absolutely no difference in the ideas.

http://www.amazon.com/Rings-Miyamoto...9489108&sr=1-1

I prefer that translation over many others.

http://www.amazon.com/Unfettered-Min.../dp/087011851X

http://www.amazon.com/Sword-Mind-Yag...p/0879512563#_

[-N-]

These are modern classics.

http://www.amazon.com/Leg--Attack-Me...9489631&sr=1-3

http://www.amazon.com/12-Fatal-Leg-A...9489631&sr=1-1

[sanjuro_ronin]

Two must haves for those wanting to know the verifiable history of TCMA:
Jing Wu:
http://www.amazon.com/Jingwu-School-...9490177&sr=1-1

CHinese Martial Arts training Manuals:
http://www.amazon.com/Chinese-Martia...ref=pd_sim_b_3

Sword polishers record by Adma Hsu
http://www.amazon.com/Sword-Polisher...9490243&sr=1-1

[Foiling Fist]

Since there are a number of concepts that were not published before the 2008 copyright, the book does have some merit; let the reader sort out for themselves what applies and what does not. All of the new concepts are in the translated. This comprises the thirty one pages of preface and the first fourteen pages in Chapter 1, of the one hundred forty four pages; and is good. The rest of the book has demonstrations by Dennis Rovere; which I will cover later.

A number of good points that until then; had not been explicitly stated were on pages 8-9:

“Left shoulder bends while right shoulder follows the body. This allows strength to reach the hand. …

Left hand drops slightly while right hand stretches with power. …

Like a bow, but not exactly like a bow. …

All of the toes should grab the floor. …

If the position is too low the power will be lost. That is why it is better to be higher.”

These all apply to a scissor stepping a moving root and a firmness that is not externally fixed. This firmness is not rigid but ‘stretches’.

The above makes excellent points brought out by the passages translated by Chow Hon Huen; which were based on 1928 book, Huang Bo Nien’s Xingyi Fist and Weapons Instruction, a credit to them.

Since the work is not Rovere’s, nor did he translate it; his comments are questionable.

I see major discrepancies in Rovere’s posed photographs; between the illustrations that are in the background of his poses, in classic Hsing-I fundamentals, and universal martial concepts.

On page eighteen, Rovere writes:
“If your weight is back-weighted, basic bio-mechanics will show that you will be prevented from delivering all of your force into the target.

Double weightedness is good for pushing and pulling, such as pushing a car, lifting weights, or a tug-of-war. Fighting is much more dynamic and requires the transfer of the power base-stance; to accommodate the best focused wave. Would anyone have a fixed double weighted stance when they surfed, or snow boarded?

Having your stance back-weighted also leads to another problem, namely, a tendency to straighten the front leg. Any low kick, such as a Xingyi horse kick targeting the straightened knee, would easily cause it to hyperflex, severely damaging it.”

An external kick is limited by biomechanics, an internally generated kick is not.

When one is seasoned by sparring and/or combat; they always keep the front leg slightly bent; one who spends there time on forms/Katas does not. When you advance, your training prevents this.

A major foundation of Traditional Internal Chinese Martial Arts is the stance concept of having either leg being empty or full. This is not weight, although sometimes they are the same. This is fullness of Qi, stance rooting and a centering of the driving energy.
This is the generator of the wave flow force, using the whole body weight being directed into the strike. Kinematics deal s with this somewhat, not biomechanics.

“Sung Shi-Jung
…Therefore, in Hsing-I never equally share the weight on your two feet.”
Hsing-I, Chinese Mind-Body Boxing, by Robert W. Smith, page 98.

No real internal talk in photo dialog or any mention of San Ti Qigong.

Dennis Rover ‘is the first non-Asian to receive special recognition as a martial arts instructor from the government of the People’s Republic of China’, page 144. Why would they recognize him if he was not practical? The People’s Republic of China has not taught this Hsing-i to their military for decades, so they give up some de-clawed and outdated methods to China’s main military competition; America/Great Britain.

Rovere was taught by Colonel of the Central Military Academy at Nanjing; who should have been the one posing for the photos to insure quality. This might have been the best for the West in 1974; but it is not now. Perhaps most westerners will never understand the deeper aspects of Hsing-i; if that is the case; the maybe this Reader’s Digest version is for them.

In looking at Rovere’s photos; and comparing them with the background older photos: the saber has the most obvious differences and discrepancies with the older photos and illustrations.

All saber photos show Rovere with a higher, non rooted stance; without sinking! It is like looking at a boat or truck that is empty compared to one that is full loaded.

When Rover holds the Hsing-I Saber,
1) overhead; he extends his arms out more in front;
a) it relies more on the arms than the stance and body centering and
b) requires more forward momentum or arm strength for power;

2) when at rest and chambered: the saber is held further from a one’s lower Dan Tien at the rest/prone position; as illustrated in background picture which

Holding the saber higher may have some practicality for running or marching drills, but still lacks the power. Not having the saber swing all the way down and back to a position closer to the Lower Dan Tien; constricts the power of the swing, and looses the benefits of rooting and Qi focusing through one’s center.

When looking at Rovere’s Empty Hand photos; and comparing them with the background older photos and illustrations:

On page 17, Figure 2-4B, it shows two pictures at the bottom; with Dennis Rovere, who appears to be leaning his torso forward, and extending his head. I do not do this, nor do I recommend it, since it causes one to be less rooted, and more committed to a forward motion. One who is skilled will see this forward leaning and lead the person with their own energy. I do not see this in the photos of the old time practitioners

On page 19, Figure 2-5A; Rovere has his front leg straight and bent in ward; this is not a San Ti stance. This is very susceptible to a break with a quick snap kick.

There are two universal defense against kicks to the knee:
1) angling the knee forward, so the kick gets hit by the front striking area of the knee,
rather than the more flexible joint;
2) when in a Cat Stance, T-Stance or San-Ti; the lesser weight of the front foot is shifted backward toward rear leg, and
a) the front leg evades the kick by repositioning or
b) the front leg’s knee is repositioned to hit attacker with knee or shin strike.

When Rovere talks about attacks to the front leg, he uses:
1) the even weightedness of the stance to supposedly make front leg repositioning easier, and
2) and the front leg’s toes being bent slightly inward, to make breaking of the knee more difficult.

Brian Kennedy has a note on the back cover praising the classic it is based upon; which I agree with; but it is not a fine training manual!

Page 42, Rovere’s front punch is held horizontally as in karate, not vertically like the photo right next to it! This discrepancy is highlighted by Rovere’s own commentary elsewhere about vertical fist punches being better.

There are some fundamental differences in Rover’s empty-hand movements that are more forward leaning, the purported stance is double weighted based on biomechanics not internal energy. Traditional Internal Chinese Martial Arts are more grounded and strikes focused by the Lower Dan Tien.

I distinguish between the translated classical work, from Rovere’s additions; I see major differences.

The book is not a copy of training manual but an approximation; filtered and edited; quoting from the book’s back cover; ‘to present an in-depth explanation of the original text … based upon actual training methods’ . These are not the original text, but explanations of them. These are not the actual training methods, but based upon them!

Consider the reason that pici training was left out of this book, as stated in page 56;
“Huang makes no mention of pici training with short weapons.
This is odd for two reasons:
Practice of this kind was well known and going on at the time of Huang’s writing.
Combat applications using dagger and bayonet are the most immediately identifiable with empty hand training”

To Rover’s credit; he has added them to his version of the book; showing his heart might well be in the right place. He appears to be better at writing than demonstrating.

Since some of the book is good; and some is not I would have to qualify the book; as ‘unpredictable results’. This phrase is used be techies at IBM, and its meaning is not good.

One who has not trained for a long time in Hsing-I, or in Qigong probably will not notice the differences. One who is experienced might be able to filter the nuggets out of this ore; but beginner’s who want to invest even two years of serious study would do better to avoid it.

[Foiling Fist]

New Qigong book: Axe Hand; Hsing-i & Internal Strength Workout. The internal energy focus of the book has many paths: hard and soft style Qigong, static and moving postures. Calming emphasis in Qi methods for energy pooling and meridian circulation. Quick projection of explosive Fa Jing in health or attack; as is used in Dim Mak and healing hands.

Wrist and fore-arm stretches to help energy flow:
these can help with tendonitis, typing hands, carp-tunnel, and muscle knots;
that will help the energy flow through your wrists,
preventing injury and learning wrist locks as well as
teaching grappling seizures and locks,
and will help you transfer it more effectively;

Progress, consciousness, and power are all tested objectively in meditation, Qigong, martial drills, as well as in-animate objects.

Five move Tai Chi form and Hsing I Five Elements detailed with step by step pictures, instructions, and internal focus as well as what you will feel.

Hsing-i Twelve Animals described step by step.

Standing Pole (Embrace the Moon or Hold the Ball) fixed and
movig forms of 1)shifting the water and 2)rising-expanding/sinking-contracting;

Fore-arm Throw double set, dynamic drill, adjusting moving root,
responsive blocking enabling the same move for offence and defense,
center of Qi as it moves through oneself and
the center between two people;

Hsing-i San Ti: standing and moving for Qi and Fa Jing;

This workout book contains many everyday methods for internals, meditations, rooting, exercises, tests and self adjustments.

Geared for learning, use study and reference, based on your own background and experience.

Greg Hayes has been studying Martial Arts since 1971 including the
Wide Circle of Kung Fu of Joseph Greenstein (The Might Atom of Ripley's and Guinness Book of World Records), and Grandmaster Wong Jack (Chia) Man of San Francisco Jing Mo (the first person to complete all of the Northern Shaolin studies since World War II), using Lohan, Northern Shaolin, Hsing I (Xing Yi) San Ti Qigong and Nei Gung. Sifu Wong’s direct lineage can be traced to the Ching soldiers burning of Honan Shaolin Temple 1732 AD., when Monk Chi Yuan escaped and went to Shantung province.

He trained with the late renown healer Mildred Jackson N.D, author of the Handbook of Alternatives to Chemical Medicines, in herbs, diet, and aura readings.

Sifu Hayes has taught Hsing-i, Shaolin, Tai Chi and Qigong since 1991.

Book is available at publisher Lulu:
http://www.lulu.com/product/paperbac...rkout/15063347

or at Amazon:
http://www.amazon.com/Hand-Hsing-i-I...dp/1257047116/

More information at:
http://jadedragonalaska.yolasite.com/book-intro.php

[bawang]

instead of reading guys writing half truth distorted myths about ancient kung fu masters, you guys should get translated books of actual ancient masters.

then all this nonsense and retarded questions would never happen.

[David Jamieson]

when are you going to begin said translation services Bawang?

lol, I'm sure a lot of people would like to have english versions of old manuals so they can read the words:

when he's close, hit him.
when he is falling back, run him down.
hit him.
keep hitting here and here.
kick this part.
use a knife.

and so on... lol

[sanjuro_ronin]

Its too bad that no one has ever done for TCMA what Draeger did for the Japanese arts in his excellent 3 volume series:
Classical Bujutsu
Classical Budo
Modern Budo and Bujutsu.

[Foiling Fist]

If you have books to recommend then state them.

Without you specifying titles or location; you are just babbling.

Put them up, or shut up.

instead of reading guys writing half truth distorted myths about ancient kung fu masters, you guys should get translated books of actual ancient masters.

then all this nonsense and retarded questions would never happen.

[rovere]

I think you missed the point(s):

"Although knowledge in book appears sound, not all of the example photos are. On page 17, it shows two pictures at the bottom; with what appears to the author Dennis Rovere; Leaning his torso forward, and extending his head. I do not do this, nor do I recommend it, since it causes one to be less rooted, and more committed to a forward motion. One who is skilled will see this forward leaning and lead the person with their own energy. I do not see this in the photos of the old time practitioners."

To respond: If you read the text and the captions: I am not illustrating a xingyi punch but rather showing how the body has to absorb or can redirect the force using the half turn position. the 45 degree angle of the torso lets the strike aimed at the centre line simply slide past. If you look at the section on peng quan my position is not leaning nor is my head extended.

"Before the forward hand is thrust out and downward (splitting-chopping), the opposite hand should be raised up vertically; as in the uppercut in Water. This is not done by Rovere in his photo on page 16; Figure2-3m1; the two hands are on a near horizontal plane; rather than increasing the angle to a closer vertical relationship."

To respond: Do you know what horizontal means? My lead fist is pointed up and greater than 90 degree angle as is the back hand. Too vertical and the arm will collapse if you push against it. I suggest a course in mechanics in order to help you better understand angles of force. Horizontal refers to parallel to the ground (x axis in space); vertical is up and down (y axis in space). You need to rethink your comments.

Since I actually trained with the "old time practitioners" I think I have a pretty good idea of how to do pi quan.

[bawang]

If you have books to recommend then state them.

Without you specifying titles or location; you are just babbling.

Put them up, or shut up.

i dont learn kung fu from a fukin book.

[Xue Sheng]

I think you missed the point(s):

"Although knowledge in book appears sound, not all of the example photos are. On page 17, it shows two pictures at the bottom; with what appears to the author Dennis Rovere; Leaning his torso forward, and extending his head. I do not do this, nor do I recommend it, since it causes one to be less rooted, and more committed to a forward motion. One who is skilled will see this forward leaning and lead the person with their own energy. I do not see this in the photos of the old time practitioners."

To respond: If you read the text and the captions: I am not illustrating a xingyi punch but rather showing how the body has to absorb or can redirect the force using the half turn position. the 45 degree angle of the torso lets the strike aimed at the centre line simply slide past. If you look at the section on peng quan my position is not leaning nor is my head extended.

"Before the forward hand is thrust out and downward (splitting-chopping), the opposite hand should be raised up vertically; as in the uppercut in Water. This is not done by Rovere in his photo on page 16; Figure2-3m1; the two hands are on a near horizontal plane; rather than increasing the angle to a closer vertical relationship."

To respond: Do you know what horizontal means? My lead fist is pointed up and greater than 90 degree angle as is the back hand. Too vertical and the arm will collapse if you push against it. I suggest a course in mechanics in order to help you better understand angles of force. Horizontal refers to parallel to the ground (x axis in space); vertical is up and down (y axis in space). You need to rethink your comments.

Since I actually trained with the "old time practitioners" I think I have a pretty good idea of how to do pi quan.

Mr Rovere

I am a Xingyi guy and I very much like your book, and I have recommended it to several people both Xingyi and not Xingyi, I would love to train it in that manner but I am far from Canada.

New Qigong book: Axe Hand; Hsing-i & Internal Strength Workout.

Nice review - do you often review your own book and post that on a website

And now before you accuse me of following you here, I have been reading Kung Fu Magazine forum for years and I joined back in February 2010, but I do admit I mostly lurk here