Building a TCMA Library Thread.

[Hebrew Hammer]

Its too bad that no one has ever done for TCMA what Draeger did for the Japanese arts in his excellent 3 volume series:
Classical Bujutsu
Classical Budo
Modern Budo and Bujutsu.

Agreed, actually reading Invicible Warrior by John Stevens about O'sensei Morehei Uesheba and Aikido...interesting but lots of mystical lore in there.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Agreed, actually reading Invicible Warrior by John Stevens about O'sensei Morehei Uesheba and Aikido...interesting but lots of mystical lore in there.

Indeed, I have Ueshiba's "Budo" and it is far more "realistic".

[Lucas]

I personally dont read books for application, i dont see any reason too since i have enough to work on in the gym. i prefer to read for history, understanding, philosophy and entertainment. heres a few books that relate to martial arts that i think most people would be able to benefit from in one way or another.

Qigong for Health, and Martial Arts

The Root of Chinese Qigong

A Tooth from the Tigers Mouth

The Unfettered Mind

[SPJ]

I have some books from late 1920s and 1930s from Kuo shu guan era.

My brothers scanned them into PDF files.

if you search some university library from China, you may be able to read them in PDF files.

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nowadays,

there are blogs, youtube, websites, forums

lots of info on the net. some are good, some are not.

my point is that

not all the info are printed and bound in books.

and most of good ones from the old time are out of prints anyway

etc etc.

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[SPJ]

my point was that if you search some libraries in china

they already have good collections of the old ones

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[Foiling Fist]

Chinese Boxing, Masters & Methods, by Robert Smith

Xing Yi Quan Xue, The Study of Mind-Form Boxing by Sun Lu Tang

Qigong, the Secret of Youth, Dr. Yang Jwing-Ming's YMAA Publications,
YMAA Publications

XingYiquan, Theory, Applications, fighting Tactics and Spirit: by Liang,
Shou-Yu & Dr. Yang, Jwing-Ming.

Chinese Mind-Boxing, by Robert Smith, Advise From the Masters, by Kuo
Yun-Shen

Hsing-I: Chinese Mind-Body Boxing by Robert Smith, from Kodansha Press
in Japan (1981, ISBN 0-87011-476-X, but his new book called Hsing Yi,
with his student is not recommended, due to its external focus.
Good reprinting recently: Hsing-I book title, now Hsing-i: Chinese Mind-
Body Boxing, originally ISBN 1-55643-455-3 by North Atlantic Books.

Classical Xingyi Quan Vol 111, Xingyi Mu Quan (Mother Fist) by Jiang
Rongqiao (1929), translated by Joseph Crandell (1999),
Smiling Tiger Martial Arts, Pinole, CA, 94564.
This is an excellent translation by Joseph. He learned from Peter Ralston
who learned from Grandmaster Wong Jack Man.

Xing Yi Nei Gong by Dan Miller and Tim Cartwell 1994,
High View Publishing, Pacific Grove ISBN 1-883175-04-6.
This book is known for securing and transmitting information from old
Hsing-I manuals and collecting in one volume.

[Foiling Fist]

If you have books to recommend then state them.

Without you specifying titles or location; you are just babbling.

Put them up, or shut up.

instead of reading guys writing half truth distorted myths about ancient kung fu masters, you guys should get translated books of actual ancient masters.

then all this nonsense and retarded questions would never happen.

[rovere]

I think you missed the point(s):

"Although knowledge in book appears sound, not all of the example photos are. On page 17, it shows two pictures at the bottom; with what appears to the author Dennis Rovere; Leaning his torso forward, and extending his head. I do not do this, nor do I recommend it, since it causes one to be less rooted, and more committed to a forward motion. One who is skilled will see this forward leaning and lead the person with their own energy. I do not see this in the photos of the old time practitioners."

To respond: If you read the text and the captions: I am not illustrating a xingyi punch but rather showing how the body has to absorb or can redirect the force using the half turn position. the 45 degree angle of the torso lets the strike aimed at the centre line simply slide past. If you look at the section on peng quan my position is not leaning nor is my head extended.

"Before the forward hand is thrust out and downward (splitting-chopping), the opposite hand should be raised up vertically; as in the uppercut in Water. This is not done by Rovere in his photo on page 16; Figure2-3m1; the two hands are on a near horizontal plane; rather than increasing the angle to a closer vertical relationship."

To respond: Do you know what horizontal means? My lead fist is pointed up and greater than 90 degree angle as is the back hand. Too vertical and the arm will collapse if you push against it. I suggest a course in mechanics in order to help you better understand angles of force. Horizontal refers to parallel to the ground (x axis in space); vertical is up and down (y axis in space). You need to rethink your comments.

Since I actually trained with the "old time practitioners" I think I have a pretty good idea of how to do pi quan.

[David Jamieson]

Hey! Dennis Rovere!

Nice to see you posting again man!
cheers.

[Xue Sheng]

I think you missed the point(s):

"Although knowledge in book appears sound, not all of the example photos are. On page 17, it shows two pictures at the bottom; with what appears to the author Dennis Rovere; Leaning his torso forward, and extending his head. I do not do this, nor do I recommend it, since it causes one to be less rooted, and more committed to a forward motion. One who is skilled will see this forward leaning and lead the person with their own energy. I do not see this in the photos of the old time practitioners."

To respond: If you read the text and the captions: I am not illustrating a xingyi punch but rather showing how the body has to absorb or can redirect the force using the half turn position. the 45 degree angle of the torso lets the strike aimed at the centre line simply slide past. If you look at the section on peng quan my position is not leaning nor is my head extended.

"Before the forward hand is thrust out and downward (splitting-chopping), the opposite hand should be raised up vertically; as in the uppercut in Water. This is not done by Rovere in his photo on page 16; Figure2-3m1; the two hands are on a near horizontal plane; rather than increasing the angle to a closer vertical relationship."

To respond: Do you know what horizontal means? My lead fist is pointed up and greater than 90 degree angle as is the back hand. Too vertical and the arm will collapse if you push against it. I suggest a course in mechanics in order to help you better understand angles of force. Horizontal refers to parallel to the ground (x axis in space); vertical is up and down (y axis in space). You need to rethink your comments.

Since I actually trained with the "old time practitioners" I think I have a pretty good idea of how to do pi quan.

Mr Rovere

I am a Xingyi guy and I very much like your book, and I have recommended it to several people both Xingyi and not Xingyi, I would love to train it in that manner but I am far from Canada.

New Qigong book: Axe Hand; Hsing-i & Internal Strength Workout.

Nice review - do you often review your own book and post that on a website

And now before you accuse me of following you here, I have been reading Kung Fu Magazine forum for years and I joined back in February 2010, but I do admit I mostly lurk here

[rovere]

Thanks for the warm welcome.

I thought I would have more time since I retired but between the academic lecturing and expert witness work, I seem to be more busy than before. It's nice someone remembers me.

FYI I am having a xingyi article published in the Journal of Chinese Martial Studies (Nov./Dec.) - one that departs from the 'normal fare'.

I hope all is well with you.

Dennis

[rovere]

for your kind comments about my book and recommendations. I seem to be traveling more often these days so perhaps we will have an opportunity to meet in the future.

BTW My family and I spent several days with Stan Henning and his lovely wife when we were in Hawaii and I understand he is doing a joint book review for mine and Brian Kennedy's Jingwu book. I trust it will be unbiased as Stan is a real scholar who is not afraid to go against popular opinion.

Continued success with your training.

Dennis

[Xue Sheng]

for your kind comments about my book and recommendations. I seem to be traveling more often these days so perhaps we will have an opportunity to meet in the future.

If you are ever in North Eastern USA

BTW My family and I spent several days with Stan Henning and his lovely wife when we were in Hawaii and I understand he is doing a joint book review for mine and Brian Kennedy's Jingwu book. I trust it will be unbiased as Stan is a real scholar who is not afraid to go against popular opinion.

Continued success with your training.

Dennis

I look forward to it

[bawang]

If you have books to recommend then state them.

Without you specifying titles or location; you are just babbling.

Put them up, or shut up.

i dont learn kung fu from a fukin book.

[William123]

“It is rumored that Yue Fei’s Xingyi fist book (a secret text) was developed by Da Mo while he was staying at Song Shan [Song Mountain]. He developed this system for conditioning the body.” Preface xxix
This gives a clear reference to Hsing-i’s Buddhist origin.

Hello all,
I came across this post and thought I should say something as I am interested in CMA. There is enough scholarship in English on Shaolin martial arts (I would recommend FoilingFist to spend more time reading) to avoid such a rookie mistake.

Neither Meir Shahar nor Stanley Henning’s research conclude that Buddhism had anything to do with Xingyi Quan; some Buddhist monks did participate in warfare (martial arts were practice throughout Chinese society at large), as can be found in the Shaolin Si Bei (translated by Tonami Mamoru) and the accounts on the battles against the Japanese/Chinese pirates during the Ming. Some of the sources still extant that talk about of Shaolin martial arts are: Qi Jiguang’s Jixiao Xinshu, the manual only lists the Shaolin staff along with other armed and unarmed styles of the time; none of which is assigned to Shaolin. Cheng Zonyou’s Shaolin staff manual does not discuss empty hand fighting, nor links their staff techniques to Da Mo (instead it credits Jinnaluo both in an illustration at the beginning of the manual as well as in the introduction). Qi’s and Cheng’s manuals were included in the Wubei Zhi by Mao Yuanji as well as in Cheng Zi Yi’s Wu Bei Yaolue Xuan, sort of word of mouth.

As for the books, I would definetely reccomend:

1. The Xingyi Quan of the Chinese army by Dennis Rovere is an excellent book
2. "The Shaolin Monastery: History, Religion and the Chinese Martial Arts", (Honolulu: The University of Hawai'i Press, 2008).
3. The translations by Jack Chen on weapons manuals: http://www.chineselongsword.com/translation.shtml
4. The Shaolin Monastery stele on Mount Song / by Tonami Mamoru ; translated and annotated by P.A. Herbert ; edited by Antonino Forte
5. Stanley Henning articles: http://seinenkai.com/articles/henning/index.html
6. Kang Gewu's Spring and Autumn of Chinese Martial Arts

Cheers,