Using the Five Elements to teach Wing Chun

[LoneTiger108]

I am guessing that there may be a few here who do not post but do read and have genuine interest in the TCMAs that will appreciate some of the info that you and a few other genuine TCMA-ists are posting here. So, all is not lost.

Maybe! We will see what happens when I post another thread entitled 'Using the Yum Yeurng (Yin Yang) to teach Wing Chun'!!

If you understand the "5 elements" theory, you can make a fight simple and end it quickly by using the least amount of effort.

Exactly. And very Wing Chun indeed.

Although I haven't really covered this area here so much (if at all!) Using opposing elements to destry an opponent is a very interesting field I researched. You may also want to look into your own 'natural' element of your birth sign in Chinese Astrology, as we all like to know what we are best at right?!

[LoneTiger108]

5 Wing Chun Concepts to REMEMBER!

1. Wu - Defence
2. Bong - Search
3. Fook - Manipulate
4. Tan - Strike
5. Huen - Circling

These conceptual ideas are everything you need to drive the Wing Chun engine, so let's hear from some of your explanations as the 'loose terms' of English I'm using here are specific to my own training and I would like to hear what other ideas are out there!

[LoneTiger108]

The 5 Arrivals of Wing Chun

Forgive the term 'arrivals' but it is simply what we used to describe how the body needs to 'arrive' and what affects this during interactive practises. From what I have been reading here on the forum, it is how I would attempt to break the structure of an opponent and it would be something worth keeping in mind when practising postures as, similar to the six harmonies, everything needs to remain balanced to generate the correct power alignments we have preserved within our forms.

5 areas of the body to concentrate on and be aware of when training are:

1. Hand
2. Head
3. Body
4. Waist
5. Legs

These are also to be viewed as the basic areas of the body to attack or disrupt as you enter into close striking range. It is also said that if all 5 arrivals are broken then the opponent is floored, literally!

This is what two practitioners would be 'discussing' during chisau exchanges. They are a simple measuring tool for you to assess each technique and how best to apply them. FME every hand movement within each set of SLT has a combination of head, body, waist and leg movement that compliment eachother perfectly so as they can be used to attack each arrival of the opponent. Maximum affect with minimum effort!

What do you think?

[LoneTiger108]

I thought I would re-ignite this thread of mine as there seems to be discussion about Wing Chun being 'internal' or 'external' that is as old as this forum!

I believe it is both, but do you think that having ideas or concepts like the 5 elements included in your learning makes your Wing Chun 'internal'? Personally, I've never thought of it like that but as ever I'm here for discussion and exchange (regardless of what others 'think' I'm here for!)

Has anyone heard of or been taught the '5 arrivals'? In this format or any other?? I would bbe interested to hear Wing Chun experience, as well as any other Martial Art experience that is similar...

[anerlich]

Has anyone heard of or been taught the '5 arrivals'?

I suggest you learn the '5 departures'.

[LoneTiger108]

I suggest you learn the '5 departures'.

Just answer the question my friend.

I would guess by your response the answer is no, so no biggie imo

[k gledhill]

5 Wing Chun Concepts to REMEMBER!

1. Wu - Defence
2. Bong - Search
3. Fook - Manipulate
4. Tan - Strike
5. Huen - Circling

These conceptual ideas are everything you need to drive the Wing Chun engine, so let's hear from some of your explanations as the 'loose terms' of English I'm using here are specific to my own training and I would like to hear what other ideas are out there!

1 wu is to make a new attack from a x'ing line
2 bong is to clear line for #1 left to right vice versa,
Like pak sao with forearm if arm crosses over bridge.
3 strike fook is for drilling jum (in elbow strike), lat sao chet cheung .relaxed wrist makes elbow focus to drill,hip,leg,etc...
4 tan strike outside elbow spreads,tan palm makes elbow move out.
5 huen making simultaneous action to displace line of force on your attack in conjunction with other attacking action.

[k gledhill]

The 5 Arrivals of Wing Chun

Forgive the term 'arrivals' but it is simply what we used to describe how the body needs to 'arrive' and what affects this during interactive practises. From what I have been reading here on the forum, it is how I would attempt to break the structure of an opponent and it would be something worth keeping in mind when practising postures as, similar to the six harmonies, everything needs to remain balanced to generate the correct power alignments we have preserved within our forms.

5 areas of the body to concentrate on and be aware of when training are:

1. Hand
2. Head
3. Body
4. Waist
5. Legs

These are also to be viewed as the basic areas of the body to attack or disrupt as you enter into close striking range. It is also said that if all 5 arrivals are broken then the opponent is floored, literally!

This is what two practitioners would be 'discussing' during chisau exchanges. They are a simple measuring tool for you to assess each technique and how best to apply them. FME every hand movement within each set of SLT has a combination of head, body, waist and leg movement that compliment eachother perfectly so as they can be used to attack each arrival of the opponent. Maximum affect with minimum effort!

What do you think?

You missed the 'idea', ELBOW !

Learn this.

Chi-sao is a development of the elbow ideas.

[Graham H]

5 Wing Chun Concepts to REMEMBER!

1. Wu - Defence
2. Bong - Search
3. Fook - Manipulate
4. Tan - Strike
5. Huen - Circling

These conceptual ideas are everything you need to drive the Wing Chun engine, so let's hear from some of your explanations as the 'loose terms' of English I'm using here are specific to my own training and I would like to hear what other ideas are out there!

1. Wu - next hit position
2. Bong - 50% of an attack open the way for the punch
3. Fook - punch
4. Tan - punch
5. Huen - 50% of an attack for recovery.


............my thinking.

GH

[k gledhill]

1. Wu - next hit position
2. Bong - 50% of an attack open the way for the punch
3. Fook - punch
4. Tan - punch
5. Huen - 50% of an attack for recovery.


............my thinking.

GH

funny but I too think this way...

[LoneTiger108]

You missed the 'idea', ELBOW !

Learn this.

Chi-sao is a development of the elbow ideas.

Glad you brought that up Kev coz the elbow is covered with the 'hand' arrival. I just prefer to use the hand translation of sau, rather than the 'arm' (which includes the wrist/elbow/shoulder)

Thanks for sharing your ideas too, along with G, as they are very similar, albeit very 'fixed'.

[YouKnowWho]

The way that I understand the 5 elements are:

1. Metal - use your sharp elbow and knee to hurt your opponent's limbs (Hung Ga guy).
2. Wood - use long range kicks and punches (TKD guy).
3. Water - conservative fighter that only play counter game (Taiji or Aikido guy).
4. Fire - bounce around with unpredictable attacks (boxer).
5. Earth - strong defense and move in inch by inch (Kempo guy).

The moment that you have detected your opponent's fighting strategy (which element), the moment that you put yourself in the element that's against him. This concept can make fight simple.

[HumbleWCGuy]

We consider the 5 elements to be Earth, Wind, Fire, Water, and Void. They are a way to categorize techniques and reveal strategy. You can talk about those things in other ways which I usually do, but I think that there is some value in the traditional way.

[LoneTiger108]

Good posts guys.

I like YKWs approach, using the elements as an assessment tool for fighting styles is very cool. Part of studying the enemy and all that

Humble: I see your terms are probably more related to old western alchemic elements? Dare I say 'Withcraft'?!! How do you use them in learning/teaching?

[HumbleWCGuy]

The way that I understand the 5 elements are:

1. Metal - use your sharp elbow and knee to hurt your opponent's limbs (Hung Ga guy).
2. Wood - use long range kicks and punches (TKD guy).
3. Water - conservative fighter that only play counter game (Taiji or Aikido guy).
4. Fire - bounce around with unpredictable attacks (boxer).
5. Earth - strong defense and move in inch by inch (Kempo guy).

The moment that you have detected your opponent's fighting strategy (which element), the moment that you put yourself in the element that's against him. This concept can make fight simple.

An alternate interpretation FWIW.
Metal-don't use

Wood-flexible strength (whipping branches)

Water- angular counters attacking and hitting at the same time

Fire-aggressive... Straight line attacking and defending

Earth- immovability sinking weight

Wind-circular movements

Void-state of no-mind (the goal of martial arts) "natural unnaturalness or natural naturalness," to quote Bruce