WCK facing

[k gledhill]

The sidestep can work (though the way Cheung does it is poor). But the technique shown wasn't simply a sidestep, was it?

The technique shown was a lop sao where Cheung GRABBED THE PUNCH OUT OF THE AIR and held onto it!

I guess all you people who think that technique will work spar with people who throw really slow, weak punches or just punch and hold their arm out there (like the stooge in the video).

Seriously, does anyone here ever f#cking spar? Because anyone who didn't recognize immediately what nonsense this was simply hasn't put in very much work.

So NOW it works, but before it didn't I see a pattern here...If W Cheung does it its no good ...but If Terence does it its okay

[YungChun]

Right grabbing $hit out of the air is perfectly reasonable.. I mean that's how punches are thrown right? It doesn't matter how the side step is done right? It doesn't matter if you train to do things like you have magical powers even if it will never ever happen in actual fighting..I mean that's a good use of training time right? Anyone stupid enough to train that way deserves what they get.

Terence stop confusing people saying $hit can work if used realistically but not work in some cartoonistic manner.. Cartoon techniques are cool and precious few know the difference anyway...

[Ultimatewingchun]

It's called a half side step - what William Cheung does on that vid.

[goju]

Right grabbing $hit out of the air is perfectly reasonable.. ..

about as resonable as a small elderly man controlling a much larger young fellow by holding his arm after he shows him what hand he is going to punch with

[YungChun]

about as resonable as a small elderly man controlling a much larger young fellow by holding his arm after he shows him what hand he is going to punch with

One has to do with reading and intercepting an attack the other ChiSao does not.. Now can you get that through your thick head?

The question is if the technique is viable......

I know you don't understand logic, or choose not to but that's how it works..

Now, go look in the phone book for Chun classes and at least try 1 free class before posting again! Silly troll.

[goju]

One has to do with reading and intercepting an attack the other ChiSao does not.. Now can you get that through your thick head?

I know you don't understand logic, or choose not to but that's how it works..

Now, go look in the phone book for Chun classes and at least try 1 free class before posting again! Silly troll.

i understand that the larger gentlemen simply could have used his size and strength to barrel through that arm control and collapsed the older man like a house of cards

if thats the real stuff then forget when i asked you to provide more

[YungChun]

i understand that the larger gentlemen simply could have used his size and strength to barrel through that arm control and collapsed the older man like a house of cards if thats the real stuff then forget when i asked you to provide more

You are ignorant of what is being trained and have no reference point to go by.. The ChiSao you saw incorporates key elements of control--that means from incontact... It's not about intercepting attacks despite the playing seen and you have no understanding of the material.. If you had an IQ over 90 you would be learning not pontificating ignorance.

Now whether you are simply too stupid to know the difference among these things or you're just an azzhole, it matters not.. All you do is post moronic comments..

I will not attempt to educate you further and frankly I don't know if you could be educated at all.. You are a foolish troll who hasn't taken a single class of Chun and you are willing to share your lack of understanding and stupidity all too often..

I won't waste any more time on your sorry Purple Rain ass..now shew, back to the rock from under which you sprang..

[SAAMAG]

The sidestep can work (though the way Cheung does it is poor). But the technique shown wasn't simply a sidestep, was it?

The technique shown was a lop sao where Cheung GRABBED THE PUNCH OUT OF THE AIR and held onto it!

I guess all you people who think that technique will work spar with people who throw really slow, weak punches or just punch and hold their arm out there (like the stooge in the video).

Seriously, does anyone here ever f#cking spar? Because anyone who didn't recognize immediately what nonsense this was simply hasn't put in very much work.

What video are you talking about? I just responded to the fact that you said someone side stepping a punch doesn't work. So perhaps I'm not getting the full picture.

Grabbing a good punch out of the air is tough, and the disparity in skill levels needs to be pretty vast for that to happen. Two equally skilled people probably wouldn't be doing anything like that.

That--and one must remember that lap sao isn't something (in my experience) that is a primary move, it's secondary only after contact is made on the arm.

[t_niehoff]

What video are you talking about? I just responded to the fact that you said someone side stepping a punch doesn't work. So perhaps I'm not getting the full picture.

This is the link to the post that I was referencing:

http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/foru...2&postcount=27

Grabbing a good punch out of the air is tough, and the disparity in skill levels needs to be pretty vast for that to happen. Two equally skilled people probably wouldn't be doing anything like that.

That--and one must remember that lap sao isn't something (in my experience) that is a primary move, it's secondary only after contact is made on the arm.

You look at the technique Cheung demos and decide for yourself.

[t_niehoff]

So NOW it works, but before it didn't I see a pattern here...If W Cheung does it its no good ...but If Terence does it its okay

No, as I said, it won't work. A sidestep can work but Cheung isn't doing just a sidestep -- he's doing a lop sao with a side step and THAT (the whole thing as demonstrated) won't work. Grabbing punches out of the air and holding onto them won't work in fighting. It's fantasy fu -- like most of what Cheung teaches (judo chop!).

Even how Cheung does/teaches the sidestep is really poor. You can't sidestep a punch -- it moves too fast (your opponent's hand moves faster than your body). What you sidestep is HIS step, his body movement (your body can move as fast as his body) -- as he steps, you step.

There is so much wrong with that clip that it should be entitled "how not to do WCK."

[t_niehoff]

Right grabbing $hit out of the air is perfectly reasonable.. I mean that's how punches are thrown right? It doesn't matter how the side step is done right? It doesn't matter if you train to do things like you have magical powers even if it will never ever happen in actual fighting..I mean that's a good use of training time right? Anyone stupid enough to train that way deserves what they get.

There is a very simple test for bullsh1t: do you SEE it used successfully on a consistent basis in realistic sparring (preferably with a non-WCK practitoner)? If not, then it is bullsh1t.

[SAAMAG]

This is the link to the post that I was referencing:

http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/foru...2&postcount=27



You look at the technique Cheung demos and decide for yourself.

No, as I said, it won't work. A sidestep can work but Cheung isn't doing just a sidestep -- he's doing a lop sao with a side step and THAT (the whole thing as demonstrated) won't work. Grabbing punches out of the air and holding onto them won't work in fighting. It's fantasy fu -- like most of what Cheung teaches (judo chop!).

Even how Cheung does/teaches the sidestep is really poor. You can't sidestep a punch -- it moves too fast (your opponent's hand moves faster than your body). What you sidestep is HIS step, his body movement (your body can move as fast as his body) -- as he steps, you step.

There is so much wrong with that clip that it should be entitled "how not to do WCK."

Alright I see what you're talking about now.

I was actually just working on something like this with a WC cohort of mine--except I was drilling him in MT at the time. So this is something that in broad form is done in fighting regardless of system.

The idea of sidestepping or slipping is something that boxers, kickboxers, and many striking fighters use, yes--wing chun too. What Cheung is going here isn't anything that I feel is "bad" persay out. He's demonstrating something in slow motion to illustrate it--not to show it in live action.

I do feel that one shouldn't try to catch the wrist, but what he's doing is almost a pak/gam/lap at the elbow, so essentially even if the lead punch is pulled back quickly--he's following the elbow which will still be in place for the most part even upon punch retraction. If the punch is pulled back then great---you just follow the elbow back in pressing in a diagonal trap and pursue whatever counterpunch or kick you want to do. But personally I'd just use a pak to gam on the elbow while stepping into them.

So while the exact method that he's using it I may not do--the idea that he's using isn't something foreign and isn't something that I would say is impossible. That said...someone who is a good and fast puncher, isn't going to leave the arm and they're not going to stay in one place. The whole idea of stick and move comes to mind--and it's something I was stressing in the drills I was working with my colleague the other night...after the punch you need to move. Don't sit in one place, etc etc.

[t_niehoff]

Alright I see what you're talking about now.

I was actually just working on something like this with a WC cohort of mine--except I was drilling him in MT at the time. So this is something that in broad form is done in fighting regardless of system.

I disagree.

The idea of sidestepping or slipping is something that boxers, kickboxers, and many striking fighters use,

Side stepping and slipping are two different things.

yes--wing chun too.

WCK's method is different.

What Cheung is going here isn't anything that I feel is "bad" persay out. He's demonstrating something in slow motion to illustrate it--not to show it in live action.

EVERYTHING Chueng does in that clip is bad. Everything. From standing still awaiting the punch, to his side step, to his lop sao, to his chain punching, etc. All crap. As I said, the clip should be labelled "How NOT to do WCK."

Yeah, and it is always a good idea to demonstrate something in ways that won't work to get your point across.

I do feel that one shouldn't try to catch the wrist, but what he's doing is almost a pak/gam/lap at the elbow, so essentially even if the lead punch is pulled back quickly--he's following the elbow which will still be in place for the most part even upon punch retraction. If the punch is pulled back then great---you just follow the elbow back in pressing in a diagonal trap and pursue whatever counterpunch or kick you want to do. But personally I'd just use a pak to gam on the elbow while stepping into them.

Pure nonsense. WTF do you think your opponent will be doing?

So while the exact method that he's using it I may not do--the idea that he's using isn't something foreign and isn't something that I would say is impossible. That said...someone who is a good and fast puncher, isn't going to leave the arm and they're not going to stay in one place. The whole idea of stick and move comes to mind--and it's something I was stressing in the drills I was working with my colleague the other night...after the punch you need to move. Don't sit in one place, etc etc.

Teaching sh1t like that is teaching people to fail.

[Ultimatewingchun]

"Grabbing a good punch out of the air is tough, and the disparity in skill levels needs to be pretty vast for that to happen. Two equally skilled people probably wouldn't be doing anything like that.

That--and one must remember that lap sao isn't something (in my experience) that is a primary move, it's secondary only after contact is made on the arm." (Van)

...........................

***BINGO. Notice I wrote in that previous post that this was a simple and basic example.

The lop is NOT the primary move in advanced TWC - and the clown prince of trolls took the bait.

Here's something more advanced. The lop comes after a pak - and is more of a guiding lop than a grab.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xUIr_...eature=related

I was using the first one as a basic example of squaring up the centerline as part of fan sao
(follow up) technique. As in FACING...you know, the title of the thread.

But the clown of all clowns, Mr. "I can't do 5hit and therefore I'll never post a vid of my own" decided to take the keyboard warrior football and try and run down the field with it - but towards his own goal line.

[Peaceful Orchid]

This is the link to the post that I was referencing:

http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/foru...2&postcount=27



You look at the technique Cheung demos and decide for yourself.

Is that the same guy who was showing this goofball technique?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u2qOw...eature=related