Sticking Hands

[YungChun]

To put it simply, practise makes perfect!

Actually perfect practice makes perfect... Then you have to decide if there is any such thing as perfect practice and if not then you pretty much just have imperfection all over the place..

[GeneChing]

Selective Sensitivity: Learning What to Read in Chi Sau by Kenton Sefcik

[JPinAZ]

I thought the article was on to something in the beginning when he was discussiong the differences between following hands and having intent of tracking COG/center of mass, his relation to thin slicing, etc.. But then he started using terms like distractions, tricks, players etc and went right back to everything that is wrong/misunderstood about chi sau imo and viewing it more as some game.

And his idea of issuing fwd pressure by leaning forward as demonstrated in the pic is another example of missing the ideas of even the most basic of wing chun concepts. Sorry if this comes off as harsh to some.

[LFJ]

Some people should not be writing articles.

[hulkout]

I think the problem with understanding Chi Sao is the same problem with many things in Wing Chun. Things are taken too literally. I just came home from class tonight and there was a guy who thought that sticky hands means to literally stick to the opponent's arms. Just to mess him up a bit, I moved my hands all over the place in crazy motions and he stuck to them no matter where I went and no matter how badly I was taking him off center. Of course it wasn't hard to capitalize on that and he's not the only one who thinks this way. People have to understand that the goal is not to actually stick to the opponent's arms. You want to "listen" to the opponent. But no matter what the opponent does, you go after his center. If he does something stupid with his arms, you ride along his arm, step in, and attack making sure that you've got good structure. You don't follow his stupidity. Just like other things in Wing Chun, things are taken too literally. Look at the Yee Gee Kim Yeung Ma stance. It's a training stance and is crucially important to develop root and the foundation for the footwork in Wing Chun. But in an actual fight, you don't stand in that stance like you're doing Sil Lim Tao. And speaking of Sil Lim Tao, many of the motions are done to work both sides, not a representation of actual combat. Again, people take it too literally. I could go on and on about this, but this is the big problem with people and their understanding of Wing Chun.

[Ali. R]

I think the problem with understanding Chi Sao is the same problem with many things in Wing Chun. Things are taken too literally. I just came home from class tonight and there was a guy who thought that sticky hands means to literally stick to the opponent's arms. Just to mess him up a bit, I moved my hands all over the place in crazy motions and he stuck to them no matter where I went and no matter how badly...........

Some people should not be writing articles.

You’ve notice that too, huh?

[hulkout]

You’ve notice that too, huh?

I haven't posted anything for a long time. I figured I'd go onto the forum and put something up. Why not. Then I was taken right back to the usual crap. You try to have an intelligent conversation, debate, or whatever, and there's always someone who has to make some smartass comment with no useful input. Before long the whole thread is hijacked with smartass posts. If you have a problem with the points, then address them. I don't mind debating. I do mind smartasses. This will be my final post on this forum. I'm done. To the other guys who actually make intelligent posts, keep training and best of luck to you. You guys have more patience than I do. I just can't stand these smartasses anymore and I won't waste anymore of my time. I have no doubt that there will be some smartass posts and disrepectful comments put up about this post which will only prove my point.

[k gledhill]

I haven't posted anything for a long time. I figured I'd go onto the forum and put something up. Why not. Then I was taken right back to the usual crap. You try to have an intelligent conversation, debate, or whatever, and there's always someone who has to make some smartass comment with no useful input. Before long the whole thread is hijacked with smartass posts. If you have a problem with the points, then address them. I don't mind debating. I do mind smartasses. This will be my final post on this forum. I'm done. To the other guys who actually make intelligent posts, keep training and best of luck to you. You guys have more patience than I do. I just can't stand these smartasses anymore and I won't waste anymore of my time. I have no doubt that there will be some smartass posts and disrepectful comments put up about this post which will only prove my point.

Agree, you left out biased moderating. People wonder why I delete threads of what you mention.

[Wayfaring]

I haven't posted anything for a long time. I figured I'd go onto the forum and put something up. Why not. Then I was taken right back to the usual crap. You try to have an intelligent conversation, debate, or whatever, and there's always someone who has to make some smartass comment with no useful input. Before long the whole thread is hijacked with smartass posts. If you have a problem with the points, then address them. I don't mind debating. I do mind smartasses. This will be my final post on this forum. I'm done. To the other guys who actually make intelligent posts, keep training and best of luck to you. You guys have more patience than I do. I just can't stand these smartasses anymore and I won't waste anymore of my time. I have no doubt that there will be some smartass posts and disrepectful comments put up about this post which will only prove my point.

To me you are describing the experience of interacting on virtually ANY internet forum. I really haven't seen the human factors change at all from forum to forum. And you are falling right into typical annoying behaviors on forums - getting butt hurt, whining, and posting up a goodbye message.

And I'm not being a smartass. That's 100% truth.

[YouKnowWho]

sticky hands means to literally stick to the opponent's arms.

I believe there is an "after sticky hands" training that's missing here. IMO, after you have gone through the "sticky hands" training, you should train free format. In free format, you try to collect information from just 1/10 second of your arm contacts with your opponent's arm and take advantage on it.

When you have reached to even higher level, you don't even need to touch your opponent's arm. Just by analysizing your opponent's "arms movement track", you can detect your opponent's intention.

For example,

- When you punch at your opponent's face,
- Your opponent tries to block your punch.
- You pull your punch back and avoid his arm to contact your arm (this way, he can't apply Tinjin on you).
- You then punch after his arm has passed your striking path.

Another example,

- You use your back left hand to parry your opponent's leading right arm in clockwise direction.
- Before your hand can touch your opponent's arm, he spins his arm and throw a hook punch at your head.
- You reverse your parrying arm direction, and intersect his hook punching arm with an arm wrapping in counter clockwise direction.

In both examples, your arms and your opponent's arms are not touching. But the end resut is no different from touching arms. You can collect the same amount of information to make your decision.

[LFJ]

your arms and your opponent's arms are not touching. But the end resut is no different from touching arms.

Right. You chase them whether touching or not.

- Before your hand can touch your opponent's arm, he spins his arm and throw a hook punch at your head.

And my fist continues forward and I punch him in the face.

[Jansingsang]

To me you are describing the experience of interacting on virtually ANY internet forum. I really haven't seen the human factors change at all from forum to forum. And you are falling right into typical annoying behaviors on forums - getting butt hurt, whining, and posting up a goodbye message.

And I'm not being a smartass. That's 100% truth.

Agreed one has too roll with the punches Not everyone's going to agree with what ever you contribute. Just life get over it

[JPinAZ]

Agree, you left out biased moderating. People wonder why I delete threads of what you mention.

Simple, it's just your own way of biased self-moderating - A discussion doesn't go the way you like, you delete it.
That's the way spoiled children act. Just saying..

To me you are describing the experience of interacting on virtually ANY internet forum. I really haven't seen the human factors change at all from forum to forum. And you are falling right into typical annoying behaviors on forums - getting butt hurt, whining, and posting up a goodbye message.

And I'm not being a smartass. That's 100% truth.

Agreed

[k gledhill]

Simple, it's just your own way of biased self-moderating - A discussion doesn't go the way you like, you delete it.
That's the way spoiled children act. Just saying..




Agreed

Yeah , call it what you want but when I post a thread and uninformed responses pop up starting their own sub conversation in the schizophrenic mode we often get here....I do tend to react like a moderator.

[k gledhill]

Simple, it's just your own way of biased self-moderating - A discussion doesn't go the way you like, you delete it.
That's the way spoiled children act. Just saying..




Agreed

Yeah , call it what you want but when I post a thread and uninformed responses pop up starting their own sub conversation in the schizophrenic mode we often get here....I do tend to react like a moderator.


An example is this thread.