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Thread: Sticking Hands

  1. #106
    I teach the 'foot' as a small tri-pod, ball of foot>outside edge> heel. weight even...

    when we shift we slide the foot like an air hockey puck 3"x 3" small steps , allowing you to deliver a 'flat-line' of force, not a sine wave, while also maintaining balanced cog, blah blah...if we need to generate quadriceps we dont go onto the toe until after the heel has pushed into the gorund for = and opposite force through structure to fists [inch punch]....avoiding doing large steps making you heel / toe , heel/toe, losing the quads while moving, ergo small shuffling steps driven by the intial force of the quads into the heel, repeat 234....lets you deliver the 'line of force' uninterrupted while attacking....yak yak yak....

    add body weight in motion, driven by these suddedn blasts from the quadriceps and hey presto you have a force YOU CANT SEE TERENCE ...but you can feeeeeeel it ...whanna feel huh, whanna ..come to nyc, free lessons in simple s h i t .... I have had a lot of visitors ...

    shifting on the balls of feet is possible but you dont get the hip blast of the heels driving into the ground for the = & opposite force...you may know anatomy , but simple physics is er a simple...keeping elbows low and in allows this energy to be harnessed ...invisibly TERENCE ! you CANT SEE IT IN CLIPS ! can you hear my large caps ?

    We also do this hip heel unity thing in Knife ....dummy....CK...fighting...chi-sao.

    heels are not the point of balance, they simply act as the generation point for force to come from the ground or vice versa.
    Hawkins Cheung sifu, gave me a mini seminar in that one day, memorable.
    Last edited by k gledhill; 11-24-2010 at 03:26 PM.

  2. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by sihing View Post
    the key thing like I mentioned it to learn how to keep one's center stable and not swaying side to side. Some in WC go away from center when they pivot, I don't, my center stays where it is and I absorb, deflect the pressure coming upon it. It's like someone that runs from pressure vs someone that takes the pressure and uses it.

    guess it depends on who they are learning from and how well they understand it.

    James
    Hey James!

    Just to jump in here and clear something up.

    I totally get the heel shift. There is a definitely linking that way from the heel, to the hip, to the elbow. I get it. It works realllly good with your, if you will, Wing Chun method.

    However...to say that when shifting on the ball of the foot - one is swaying - is incorrect. But! I can see how this would look so. If, after heel shifting for a time, one were to try and shift on the ball with the same type of energy, one would sway.

    As far as in my practice goes, the 'sway' is taken out of the equation by sinking the stance. The sinking or rather the bending of the knees (especially so on the back leg) is used to absorb and deflect the pressure as you talked about.

    While I'm sure there are ball-of-foot-shifters out there who sway, I think the above explained mechanics will clear out how us *others* don't end up swaying.

    Peace,
    CTK
    “An ounce of action is worth a ton of theory.” – Friedrich Engels

  3. #108
    Join Date
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    Quote Originally Posted by couch View Post
    Hey James!

    Just to jump in here and clear something up.

    I totally get the heel shift. There is a definitely linking that way from the heel, to the hip, to the elbow. I get it. It works realllly good with your, if you will, Wing Chun method.

    However...to say that when shifting on the ball of the foot - one is swaying - is incorrect. But! I can see how this would look so. If, after heel shifting for a time, one were to try and shift on the ball with the same type of energy, one would sway.

    As far as in my practice goes, the 'sway' is taken out of the equation by sinking the stance. The sinking or rather the bending of the knees (especially so on the back leg) is used to absorb and deflect the pressure as you talked about.

    While I'm sure there are ball-of-foot-shifters out there who sway, I think the above explained mechanics will clear out how us *others* don't end up swaying.

    Peace,
    CTK
    Hi Kenton,

    I was thinking more about the LT guys that sway side to side, as I have heard others say that pivoting from the K1 does not mean swaying is present

    Hey, to each their own. For me, this heel pivoting thing is a very small part of the equation, it just sets a theme, which is "Don't run from pressure". I only posted because some think that the heel thing means we are chairs ready to fall over, which is not the case.

    Kev G, good post, and I totally agree. It's a moment in time thing, but one has to do this slowly at first to be able to produce the natural effect. It's not like one is sitting in a bai jong stance, weight back on the heels waiting for a push to fall over, lol. Opps sorry Keith about the lol, couldn't help myself

    James

  4. #109
    Quote Originally Posted by shawchemical View Post
    It sure does work under pressure in real world confrontations. I'm not claiming to be the best in the world, or to be anywhere close to perfect, or even close to having the all of the tools of the system working for me.l But i will continue to work and improve. Chi sao is a drill. An incredibly useful drill as long as you don't begin to think that its all there is. It can be use.d in a variety of different manners, to focus on different things

    Your comment about the heels not being on the ground is laughable. All you show in that clip is leaning on your training partner, and although you talk about the waist, you're not driving your movement from your waist.

    If you never understand why people don't use their name, you don't understand much about the vulnerabilities of information on the internet.

    Its not necessary to always meet people before you have something to say, not even close.

    How would you know what I am doing? You can't see my control as the skill is in the body movement and termed ' hidden skill' in kung fu. Hidden as you must feel it if you are not at the level to se it.

    Yes you don't use your name so you don't have to back up your views.

  5. #110
    Quote Originally Posted by k gledhill View Post
    So do I, informed , ive chi-saoed with your teacher Terence talks a lot about what I do and Philipp But met neither ... strange eh ?

    anyway who cares eh? good luck fighting
    You chi sao with my teacher what 15 years ago, at a freindly seminar and have a totally different view of what happen. lol

    Terence is very right in his views, its shame people can't see the truth of his points. He trains with fighters so he knows what is real application and what is drills. Chi Sao where you chain punch and switch a lot is not much value in a fight. Look out for a left hook!

  6. #111
    Quote Originally Posted by Graham H View Post
    A term coined by Terence on a regular basis.



    As do we......



    I respect that.



    The way I see it is why even roll at all. I can't see any point in the way you roll. I couldn't roll with you. Too many differences and we roll for different reasons.


    There is no chain punching in what I do and Philipp has a certain strategy in his VT. One I haven't seen until the time I met him.



    In our lineage we train to spar. There is no rolling in sparring. Hands up and get stuck in. Its no different than how boxers do it.

    I'd like to see Terence take part in one of PB's sparring sessions. I think he may leave with different ideas. Maybe you too Alan. Like you Philipp entertains all sorts of fighters. MMA, Boxers etc etc. As far as I know everybody that goes there from another lineage never goes back to their old ways. I am one of those people.

    GH
    You don't understand out training, which is fine. But posting comments about my lack of structure etc is pointless i that case.

    I am sure you have your methods etc. as do I.

    Chi Sao is what it is to different schools, thats all cool. In the end its down to what if develops for you.

    I have 6 guys fighting this month. As a group we have over 20 plus fights - MMA Boxing a year, with good results.

    I coach professional fighters in striking using our skills so tried and tested.

  7. #112
    Quote Originally Posted by Peaceful Orchid View Post
    Why would one shift on the heel? That is the least stable position. One can be knocked over easily if shifting on the heel. Plus, you can't develop any power on the heel.
    That is correct.

  8. #113
    Quote Originally Posted by KPM View Post
    I disagree. My foundation is from a lineage that teaches to pivot on the heels. I practiced that way for many years until guys like Robert Chu and Zopa Gyatso on forums like this convinced me to try it otherwise. When I tried it I didn't get the results or acknowledge the difference right away. I had to keep practicing until I was good at the different method before I could admit that they were right. The upper body absolutely is not compromised when not pivoting on the heels....as long as you are doing it correctly. I also found my structure was much more solid by avoiding pivoting on my heels. Its comes down to simple biomechanics. If your weight is already on your heels when you are pivoting, then you have very little "reserve" to support your structure if pressed during the pivot. Any kind of "push off" against the opponent to apply "forward pressure" has to come almost exclusively from the hips and thighs, because being on the heels takes the calf muscles out of the equation. Again....lineage considerations aside and looking strictly from a biomechanical standpoint.....pivoting near the K1 point with close to 50/50 weight distribution engages the calf muscles for forward pressure and provides a "springy" reserve, almost like a shock absorber. The upper body absolutely does not get compromised, but is actually even more solid and functional. Been there...done that. But it took time and practice to do it well enough to see the benefits. But from a biomechanical standpoint, you can't argue against the fact that having the weight on the heels doesn't allow good use of the calf muscles or use of the the elasticity of the calf and arch of the foot. That is not to say that pivoting on the heels doesn't work. Obviously guys like WSL made it work very well! But it is not optimal from a anatomical viewpoint. And I know anatomy.
    Good post!

  9. #114
    Lik Chong Gerk Jang Sang - Power originates from the heel
    Some people use the saying ‘power comes from the heel’. This may be the reason some people may think that having your weight on your heels is powerful. It is not.

    The reason we use the terminology “originates” rather then “comes from” is that weight distribution starts from the whole of the feet before power is issued through the balls of the feet. So you could say that power started in the heels, but had to be transferred through the balls of the feet in order to be used. If you were to merely have your weight in your heels and not transfer your weight to issue power you would end up with a very unstable stance. This is why many people find it hard to equalize pressure or forward pressure when utilizing a stance position with their weight dead on their heels or any other fixed part of the foot. In truth you could say that the weight in your feet really truly depends on what direction pressure is coming into your body. What I mean by this is if you have true body structure the real skill is to take pressure and redirect that pressure into the ground, commonly described as “rooting”. If you have this control of skill you should be able to redirect the force through your body and also store force in your body, which will allow you to reissue it back to your opponent with greater power. That brings me to the next maxim which is often also misunderstood:

    Ging Chong Gwut Gun Faat, Lik Chong Gerk Jang Sheng - Power comes from bones and tendons, strength originates from the heels
    Often people describe power in Wing Chun being delivered by bone power or bone alignment. Unfortunately, what you often see is locking out of the joints, i.e. the main punching arm will be extended at the elbow and shoulder. This is a very limited source of power development and more importantly causes severe damage in the long term to the elbow and to the rotor-cuff of the shoulder. (As a practitioner of Chinese medicine, I can confirm that I have often had to treat this problem with new students). Now, locking the joints out on impact does produce a release of power but this is only a small amount compared to the power that can be produced with the whole body structure via kinetic linking to the ground. One of the main benefits of this type of body connection alignment is that not only can you issue power in this manner due to the “spring” nature of the body but you can also absorb power through the body into the ground without taking undue pressure into the joints. If you align your body in this correct manner the joints will absorb pressure and redirect the pressure without effort into the ground and the tendons will twist and strengthen and become stronger with this practice. Therefore when we talk about strength originating from the heels this is really talking about absorbing pressure and rooting therefore explaining the nature of the body in its spring position.

    "Power originates from the heels, travels up the ankle and knee joints, is in conjunction with the waist, issues forth from the body and rib cage, travels down the shoulders, to the elbow, to the wrist and manifests from the hands". -Robert Chu Sigung

    Let me sort out the missing links for you. Kinetic linking is a term which describes how to correctly load gravitational forces in your body.

    Generating maximum mass is achieved through the alignment of the ankle, knee, hip, shoulder and elbow. These are the kinetic links in which power is generated and transferred. Should one of these links be out of alignment, its ability to transfer power from the rest of the body is reduced. To issue power using these mechanics you push your body forward and upward, making sure the three dan tian are moving in sequence, from bottom to top (Qi Hai > Tan Zhong > Yin Tang). Your three dan tian points are located approximately at the same positions as your segmented centers of gravity. So what you’re doing is pushing your entire mass forward and upward using all the aligned kinetic links (joints) in your body. Whether stepping or stationary, the principles remain the same. This is what is meant by using power from the ground up. Naturally, rooting power into the ground is done using the same mechanics.

    The problem you will have in combat if you are locking out your joints is that you have committed your striking power. Therefore if you have actually missed your target you will find yourself exposed and also will have no stored power available. When I think of this I would say it is like having only one arrow, once you’ve shot that arrow you’ll have none left. If you generate your power from the ground you’ll have an endless source of ammunition. So now you have an automatic machine-gun! Therefore if you punch and miss you can then readjust and re-fire much more quickly and much more effectively because you haven’t over-committed your arm position. The fact is, the body alignment and body position are the important factors in generating power.

    “Jang Dae Lik - Elbow down power”
    Some people think that by having your elbow down, you’re automatically getting more power; this isn’t true. The key thing here is what we call “vector power lines”. Simply put, having your elbow pointing downward and having the arm bent, gives you a vector power line that bypasses the shoulder in terms of using it for power generation, and goes directly into the hip. This way you can use your body mechanics to full effect. Having your arm straight creates a vector power line that goes straight through the shoulder, taking away the structural support. The shoulder joint (primarily the rotor cuff area) is designed for stabilizing the shoulder joint, nor for storing power. Long term use of the shoulder in this manner will deteriorate the rotor cuff prematurely causing serious degrading of the stability of the joint. So, in fact, “elbow down power” is really teaching one to bypass power from the hip through the arm when punching and then through the arm to the hip when receiving power. That will bring us on to the next maxim of what happens to this power once stored into the body.

    Bo Gun Sen Juen Ying Yee Mao – The horse moves with the body like a cat.
    This maxim clearly shows the body mechanics of the Wing Chun fighter. The body of the cat demonstrates agility and mobility. In order to produce these traits one must have good body mechanics, strong sense of centre, balance and explosive power. Having the ability to adapt your weight and balance under pressure or when issuing pressure is the key. When a cat moves it will have light footwork but centred body weight.

    “Siu Nim Tao Lien Yiu Sen Ma” – Siu Nim Tao trains the waist, torso and horse stance.
    The first form in Wing Chun, Siu Nim Tao, teaches the practitioner correct body alignment but also correct storing and issuing of power. Many branches of Wing Chun practise this stance in a very static manner with no linking of the body into the movements of the arms. In the Chu Sau Lei system the Siu Nim Tao teaches the student to generate linked kinetic power and also what we term as the “spring core.”

    The form teaches how to explode power with coordination between waist, body and horse. Another important aspect here is what is called the core-musculature. The “core” consists of the abdominal and low back musculature which are responsible for transferring force from the upper extremities to the lower extremities, and vice-versa. The core aids in stability during all physical activity. Even if the rest of your body is very strong, but your core is weak, you will not be able to use all your power since there is no way for the body to stabilize the movement. Improving core strength will improve your ability to transfer power, thus, improve your Wing Chun Kuen power.

    The idea of the “spring core” is that the central fulcrum of power is controlled by the centre of the body i.e. the hips and waist (core musculature). But, like a giant sphere, the core is just the centre; pressure received from any direction will be equalized from the opposite direction. So in terms of combat if you receive pressure into the arm it will be stabilized by the hips and transferred into the ground via the legs. And the opposite can be generated to produce issuing power by sinking the bodyweight into the ground and the focusing intention of the hips as the storing point of this borrowed pressure one can then issue explosively from the hips, pressing the balls of the feet into the ground and releasing the power via the elbow through the fist into the target.

    “Externally train the tendons, muscles and bones”
    This relates to the idea of Gung Lik within our system, something that we translate as “Trained Strength”. To us, it has nothing to do with “hard energy” or “brute force” as some branches of WCK regard it to be. Gung Lik is trained in the forms and also in Chi Sao practice. Actually, everything we do moulds our bodies to comply with the nature of the system, therefore Gung Lik is always employed. For instance, twisting your Tan Sao will use muscle (to cause the twisting) and when the muscle is contracted this makes the tendons pull on the bone, making muscle, tendon and bone stronger. The tendons are the “rubber bands” of the body and they are what make us able to use true elastic energy. When receiving or absorbing force your muscles control the movement but your tendons store the energy. When the energy is released, there is a minimum of muscular involvement, which in turn makes the movement efficient, less tiring and enables greater force production.

    We spring-load ourselves this way either by absorbing force from our opponent, or by using gravity to stretch our tendons.

  10. #115
    Quote Originally Posted by sihing View Post
    Go to a gym, and the squat area. Place two 45lbs plates on each side of a barbell, get in the middle of the bar and perform a squat with your heels off the ground, then with the heels on the ground, let us know which feels stronger/more stable and activates the thigh muscles.

    James

    P.S. If while squating down, you go back in direction (barbell behind your heels), you will fall over backwards, but if you adjust the direction of your squating, so that the barbell is centered with your feet, then you will have balance and power.
    Squating is not walking. If you clean you use triple extension which is at the point of issue of power. So you have - squat into the whole foot as you said then when you lift you press to the ball of your foot as your knee and hip move forward.

    So power came from the heal then was moved to the ball of the foot to be used

  11. #116
    Quote Originally Posted by sihing View Post
    Go to a gym, and the squat area. Place two 45lbs plates on each side of a barbell, get in the middle of the bar and perform a squat with your heels off the ground, then with the heels on the ground, let us know which feels stronger/more stable and activates the thigh muscles.

    James

    P.S. If while squating down, you go back in direction (barbell behind your heels), you will fall over backwards, but if you adjust the direction of your squating, so that the barbell is centered with your feet, then you will have balance and power.
    Do a squat then have some one push you. You will need to vector forward and push from the balls of your feet, others wise you will be on your a--! lol

  12. #117
    "Terence is very right in his views, its a shame people can't see the truth of his points. He trains with fighters so he knows what is real application and what is drills." (Alan Orr)

    ...............................

    ***THERE IS no evidence whatsoever that Terence actually trains with fighters - and even less so that he himself has any real fighting skills. And this, combined with his endless trash talking arrogance and his 180 degree turns on things like, for example - what chi sao is or is not - is the reason why so many people dismiss so much of what he says.

    Be reminded that this is the same guy who also told the forum that elbow strikes are wing chun's primary weapon, and that tan sao can be used to break out of a MT plum necktie.

  13. #118
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Rockville, MD
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    2,662
    Quote Originally Posted by Alan Orr View Post
    Lik Chong Gerk Jang Sang - Power originates from the heel
    Some people use the saying ‘power comes from the heel’. This may be the reason some people may think that having your weight on your heels is powerful. It is not.

    The reason we use the terminology “originates” rather then “comes from” is that weight distribution starts from the whole of the feet before power is issued through the balls of the feet. So you could say that power started in the heels, but had to be transferred through the balls of the feet in order to be used. If you were to merely have your weight in your heels and not transfer your weight to issue power you would end up with a very unstable stance. This is why many people find it hard to equalize pressure or forward pressure when utilizing a stance position with their weight dead on their heels or any other fixed part of the foot. In truth you could say that the weight in your feet really truly depends on what direction pressure is coming into your body. What I mean by this is if you have true body structure the real skill is to take pressure and redirect that pressure into the ground, commonly described as “rooting”. If you have this control of skill you should be able to redirect the force through your body and also store force in your body, which will allow you to reissue it back to your opponent with greater power. That brings me to the next maxim which is often also misunderstood:

    Ging Chong Gwut Gun Faat, Lik Chong Gerk Jang Sheng - Power comes from bones and tendons, strength originates from the heels
    Often people describe power in Wing Chun being delivered by bone power or bone alignment. Unfortunately, what you often see is locking out of the joints, i.e. the main punching arm will be extended at the elbow and shoulder. This is a very limited source of power development and more importantly causes severe damage in the long term to the elbow and to the rotor-cuff of the shoulder. (As a practitioner of Chinese medicine, I can confirm that I have often had to treat this problem with new students). Now, locking the joints out on impact does produce a release of power but this is only a small amount compared to the power that can be produced with the whole body structure via kinetic linking to the ground. One of the main benefits of this type of body connection alignment is that not only can you issue power in this manner due to the “spring” nature of the body but you can also absorb power through the body into the ground without taking undue pressure into the joints. If you align your body in this correct manner the joints will absorb pressure and redirect the pressure without effort into the ground and the tendons will twist and strengthen and become stronger with this practice. Therefore when we talk about strength originating from the heels this is really talking about absorbing pressure and rooting therefore explaining the nature of the body in its spring position.

    "Power originates from the heels, travels up the ankle and knee joints, is in conjunction with the waist, issues forth from the body and rib cage, travels down the shoulders, to the elbow, to the wrist and manifests from the hands". -Robert Chu Sigung

    Let me sort out the missing links for you. Kinetic linking is a term which describes how to correctly load gravitational forces in your body.

    Generating maximum mass is achieved through the alignment of the ankle, knee, hip, shoulder and elbow. These are the kinetic links in which power is generated and transferred. Should one of these links be out of alignment, its ability to transfer power from the rest of the body is reduced. To issue power using these mechanics you push your body forward and upward, making sure the three dan tian are moving in sequence, from bottom to top (Qi Hai > Tan Zhong > Yin Tang). Your three dan tian points are located approximately at the same positions as your segmented centers of gravity. So what you’re doing is pushing your entire mass forward and upward using all the aligned kinetic links (joints) in your body. Whether stepping or stationary, the principles remain the same. This is what is meant by using power from the ground up. Naturally, rooting power into the ground is done using the same mechanics.

    The problem you will have in combat if you are locking out your joints is that you have committed your striking power. Therefore if you have actually missed your target you will find yourself exposed and also will have no stored power available. When I think of this I would say it is like having only one arrow, once you’ve shot that arrow you’ll have none left. If you generate your power from the ground you’ll have an endless source of ammunition. So now you have an automatic machine-gun! Therefore if you punch and miss you can then readjust and re-fire much more quickly and much more effectively because you haven’t over-committed your arm position. The fact is, the body alignment and body position are the important factors in generating power.

    “Jang Dae Lik - Elbow down power”
    Some people think that by having your elbow down, you’re automatically getting more power; this isn’t true. The key thing here is what we call “vector power lines”. Simply put, having your elbow pointing downward and having the arm bent, gives you a vector power line that bypasses the shoulder in terms of using it for power generation, and goes directly into the hip. This way you can use your body mechanics to full effect. Having your arm straight creates a vector power line that goes straight through the shoulder, taking away the structural support. The shoulder joint (primarily the rotor cuff area) is designed for stabilizing the shoulder joint, nor for storing power. Long term use of the shoulder in this manner will deteriorate the rotor cuff prematurely causing serious degrading of the stability of the joint. So, in fact, “elbow down power” is really teaching one to bypass power from the hip through the arm when punching and then through the arm to the hip when receiving power. That will bring us on to the next maxim of what happens to this power once stored into the body.

    Bo Gun Sen Juen Ying Yee Mao – The horse moves with the body like a cat.
    This maxim clearly shows the body mechanics of the Wing Chun fighter. The body of the cat demonstrates agility and mobility. In order to produce these traits one must have good body mechanics, strong sense of centre, balance and explosive power. Having the ability to adapt your weight and balance under pressure or when issuing pressure is the key. When a cat moves it will have light footwork but centred body weight.

    “Siu Nim Tao Lien Yiu Sen Ma” – Siu Nim Tao trains the waist, torso and horse stance.
    The first form in Wing Chun, Siu Nim Tao, teaches the practitioner correct body alignment but also correct storing and issuing of power. Many branches of Wing Chun practise this stance in a very static manner with no linking of the body into the movements of the arms. In the Chu Sau Lei system the Siu Nim Tao teaches the student to generate linked kinetic power and also what we term as the “spring core.”

    The form teaches how to explode power with coordination between waist, body and horse. Another important aspect here is what is called the core-musculature. The “core” consists of the abdominal and low back musculature which are responsible for transferring force from the upper extremities to the lower extremities, and vice-versa. The core aids in stability during all physical activity. Even if the rest of your body is very strong, but your core is weak, you will not be able to use all your power since there is no way for the body to stabilize the movement. Improving core strength will improve your ability to transfer power, thus, improve your Wing Chun Kuen power.

    The idea of the “spring core” is that the central fulcrum of power is controlled by the centre of the body i.e. the hips and waist (core musculature). But, like a giant sphere, the core is just the centre; pressure received from any direction will be equalized from the opposite direction. So in terms of combat if you receive pressure into the arm it will be stabilized by the hips and transferred into the ground via the legs. And the opposite can be generated to produce issuing power by sinking the bodyweight into the ground and the focusing intention of the hips as the storing point of this borrowed pressure one can then issue explosively from the hips, pressing the balls of the feet into the ground and releasing the power via the elbow through the fist into the target.

    “Externally train the tendons, muscles and bones”
    This relates to the idea of Gung Lik within our system, something that we translate as “Trained Strength”. To us, it has nothing to do with “hard energy” or “brute force” as some branches of WCK regard it to be. Gung Lik is trained in the forms and also in Chi Sao practice. Actually, everything we do moulds our bodies to comply with the nature of the system, therefore Gung Lik is always employed. For instance, twisting your Tan Sao will use muscle (to cause the twisting) and when the muscle is contracted this makes the tendons pull on the bone, making muscle, tendon and bone stronger. The tendons are the “rubber bands” of the body and they are what make us able to use true elastic energy. When receiving or absorbing force your muscles control the movement but your tendons store the energy. When the energy is released, there is a minimum of muscular involvement, which in turn makes the movement efficient, less tiring and enables greater force production.

    We spring-load ourselves this way either by absorbing force from our opponent, or by using gravity to stretch our tendons.
    Go to the "cut and paste" mode guys! This post is keeper! Great job Alan!

  14. #119
    Quote Originally Posted by sihing View Post
    Go to a gym, and the squat area. Place two 45lbs plates on each side of a barbell, get in the middle of the bar and perform a squat with your heels off the ground, then with the heels on the ground, let us know which feels stronger/more stable and activates the thigh muscles.

    James

    P.S. If while squating down, you go back in direction (barbell behind your heels), you will fall over backwards, but if you adjust the direction of your squating, so that the barbell is centered with your feet, then you will have balance and power.
    Go to a weightlifting competition and you will see shoes like this:


    The built up heel is used to allow the weight to come forward because weight on the heels makes you unstable. You even alluded to this above when you said you have to adjust forward.

    When you pivot, you must shift to a smaller surface area (ball or heel). Otherwise there is too much friction. The heel is to unstable. That's why most dynamic movements need the weight to be on the ball of the foot.
    Last edited by Peaceful Orchid; 11-24-2010 at 07:40 PM.

  15. #120
    Quote Originally Posted by KPM View Post
    I disagree. My foundation is from a lineage that teaches to pivot on the heels. I practiced that way for many years until guys like Robert Chu and Zopa Gyatso on forums like this convinced me to try it otherwise. When I tried it I didn't get the results or acknowledge the difference right away. I had to keep practicing until I was good at the different method before I could admit that they were right. The upper body absolutely is not compromised when not pivoting on the heels....as long as you are doing it correctly. I also found my structure was much more solid by avoiding pivoting on my heels. Its comes down to simple biomechanics. If your weight is already on your heels when you are pivoting, then you have very little "reserve" to support your structure if pressed during the pivot. Any kind of "push off" against the opponent to apply "forward pressure" has to come almost exclusively from the hips and thighs, because being on the heels takes the calf muscles out of the equation. Again....lineage considerations aside and looking strictly from a biomechanical standpoint.....pivoting near the K1 point with close to 50/50 weight distribution engages the calf muscles for forward pressure and provides a "springy" reserve, almost like a shock absorber. The upper body absolutely does not get compromised, but is actually even more solid and functional. Been there...done that. But it took time and practice to do it well enough to see the benefits. But from a biomechanical standpoint, you can't argue against the fact that having the weight on the heels doesn't allow good use of the calf muscles or use of the the elasticity of the calf and arch of the foot. That is not to say that pivoting on the heels doesn't work. Obviously guys like WSL made it work very well! But it is not optimal from a anatomical viewpoint. And I know anatomy.
    weight ISN'T ON the heels its on 3 points , the generation of quadriceps 'focus point' is the heel, then you can move to toes, called stepping secret stuff ...stepping.

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