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Thread: RUSSIAN MARTIAL ART "SYSTEMA"

  1. #31
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    Hi all

    Great to read some feed back from you all on this topic

    I am interested to hear about the psychic or religious undercurrents that some of you have experienced.

    I have only read about the psychic element which was touched upon in one of the hand books that came with DVD's from one of the top Russian guys (Vlad) based in Canada.

    www.russianmartialart.com/

    As for the religious aspect.....I have not come into contact with that either but had read about it in the Systema background.

    The guy I have been training with just spent 6 months with Vlad in Canada and he is pretty straight up with no out of the box theory’s as yet - so all good so far.

    He said some of the people he trained with were a mixed bag with K1 fighters etc and really experienced people.

    He also mentioned alot of people who went could not deal with the reality side of things - meaning the instructors would throw them into alot of random situations.

    For example guys using dead weight smothering your head -then instructors saying ok how do you get out of this -basically showing you what may be lacking in your training.

    One thing he did say which was very interesting was that one of the head instructors - Vlad was very very good.

    My friend has loads of MMA training over a variety of styles and systems and he said he (Vlad) saw me coming every time.

    He put this down to life or death experience that Vlad had with Special Forces -that he (my friend) will never experience.

    An edge if you like that I know I will never get no matter how much I train!!!!

    So I put it out for discussion that to reach the highest levels of this system you have to have killer instinct as Systema comes from reality life or death training weather it be unarmed or with a weapon and in any situation

    What do you guys think about this line of thinking
    Last edited by Blacktiger; 01-08-2007 at 04:10 PM.

  2. #32
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    I have a friend who trains systema with a group out east of me. he's pretty happy with it and has shared some with the broader group of us.

    It's ok stuff as far as I'm concerned.

    I don't go for the hocus pocus aspect in anything, be it systema or cma or what not, that stuff is neitehr here nor there for me, so i gloss over it and take the parts that are practical and useful and developable (is that a word? )

    haven't been to Vlad's school here though. It costs too much for my tastes and I'm pretty happy with what I have for now anyway.
    Kung Fu is good for you.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by David Jamieson View Post
    I don't go for the hocus pocus aspect in anything, be it systema or cma or what not, that stuff is neitehr here nor there for me, so i gloss over it and take the parts that are practical and useful and developable (is that a word? )
    Word

    I agree !!!

  4. #34
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    Nick,

    Cool that youve been looking into it. Rob Poyton has a class about 10 mins away from me but it clashes with the best night at mma its something ive dipped a toe in and really liked. I will pursue it later but its not my priority right now...

    "Actually IMO the best things are the methods and drills rather than techniques per se" I agree 100%, more so i think they have the best methods and drills of any martial art ive seen.

    everything alive, no fixed patterns, no "techniques", everything is trained into your body by doing the drills. drills and methods very direct in what they were trying to achieve not roundabout "do it for x months/years and maybe youll figure it out". attributes (yielding, structure, mobility etc) applicable across ranges/venues eg standup, clinch, ground, weapons etc

    very interesting from a wing chun perspective too.

    but, i wouldnt train it on its own.

    also, WTF is up with camo-wearing wierdos.

  5. #35
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    Jon,

    I would say its like the WD40 of Martial arts...whatever style you do it will improve it.

    For example....The body has certain vulnerable points and when we put a guard up we close them (for example we tuck our chin and hunch our body to protect our chin throat ribs and solar plexus)....Now in wing chun we have methods to open the points by controlling our opponent...in sytema however they do it by hitting you whilst you attack since when you attack you open up these points...this is why in boxing people often get knocked out when they are attacking rather then when they are defending (because in attacking they forget about maintaining their defensive posture)

    To invite the attack in the first place though and thus take advantage of it (so at least the systema thinking goes) you have to assume a posture which is neither offensive or defensive but simply neutral...most people are uncomfortable with this however because it makes them feel vulnerable i.e. afraid...This is why in systema the training starts slow and light to allow people to conquer this fear.

    This is just one of the ideas which I have found interesting as a student of MA. Anyway I am looking forward to doing more training in it.
    'In the woods there is always a sound...In the city aways a reflection.'

    'What about the desert?'

    'You dont want to go into the desert'

    - Spartan

  6. #36
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    PS yes I agree WTF is it with the camo wierdos.....
    'In the woods there is always a sound...In the city aways a reflection.'

    'What about the desert?'

    'You dont want to go into the desert'

    - Spartan

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nick Forrer View Post
    PS yes I agree WTF is it with the camo wierdos.....
    Keeping it real with the special forces vibe bro

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nick Forrer View Post
    I would say its like the WD40 of Martial arts...whatever style you do it will improve it.

    For example....The body has certain vulnerable points and when we put a guard up we close them (for example we tuck our chin and hunch our body to protect our chin throat ribs and solar plexus)....Now in wing chun we have methods to open the points by controlling our opponent...in sytema however they do it by hitting you whilst you attack since when you attack you open up these points...this is why in boxing people often get knocked out when they are attacking rather then when they are defending (because in attacking they forget about maintaining their defensive posture)

    To invite the attack in the first place though and thus take advantage of it (so at least the systema thinking goes) you have to assume a posture which is neither offensive or defensive but simply neutral...most people are uncomfortable with this however because it makes them feel vulnerable i.e. afraid...This is why in systema the training starts slow and light to allow people to conquer this fear.

    This is just one of the ideas which I have found interesting as a student of MA. Anyway I am looking forward to doing more training in it.
    cmon nick your just scratching the surface, or are you keeping the juicy bits close to your chest

    i like the wd40 analogy, so true.what was interesting to me seemed there were two key components they were training in the drills, yielding and resisting (a la relaxation and structure), and they were drilling it into the body at a really reflexive level. when i put it in the bigger picture of the russian stuff ive seen (eg fast and loose from pavel or any sonnon stuff) then think about the drills, the question i had was well am i doing some partner assisted mobility training or training martial arts? i guess the answer is both, that seems pretty neat to me. again with the strength training stuff they do i thought the same thing...

    actually my first thought after systema was i wished i did this for x months before doing wing chun it takes care of some of the basic skills that unco beginners have to learn without the grief of getting the wing chun techniques right. then i thought how great it was not having to remember any techniques, or get them picture perfect.

    now i dont know enough (do they have a guard position??) to say about the neutral position idea but in a street situation it certainly makes sense. the hitting as your being hit thing im not 100% convinced about. are you talking about the thing they do where you punch them then they wave it back to you? if so that has a delay built in i dont see how theyd deal with a boxer firing crisp combos etc...

    also the fear thing is interesting too. ive read stuff about this before to do with the flinch reflex etc, and how different types of martial arts approach it differently. i dont know what to think about that.

    oh one more thing, anyone seen any systema or systema trained fighters in the ring/cage yet?

    ps also i got me a hammer in my toolbox (thai boxing) and a wrench too (grappling) now i can fix anything

    pps have you seen much sonnon stuff? i know we talked about this a little bit, i first got bodyflow on recommendation from andrewS, i owe a fair bit of my ground game skill to that, especially hip movement and "ground navigation". his "softwork" thing is not exactly systema but close.

  9. #39
    I'd really like to try it I've downloaded heaps of videos it looks like it is superiour to a lot of styles out there. I dont think that their are any schools near me though (Melbourne Austalia) I'd be willing to incorporate it into what I'm already doing, It comes from a culture called the 'Cossacks' they were some of the greatest warriors that ever existed and there is various European martial arts only recently coming to light in the western world (I find it all quite facinating).

  10. #40
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    If you go the Systema route get ready for some hocus pocus.

    Just watch there tape "Beyond the Physical" where MR puts people to sleep with a wave of his hands and other soviet mystical psychic energy junk or in the offical guidebook where it talks about the ritual of standing in the dark in front of a mirror with a candle lit in front of you in the hopes of seeing your spirit animal.

    Which oddly you see less in less in there current marketing structure.

    Even if you find some of the Systema physical training to be worth your time there is always the rumour about them trying to get students to become indoctrinated in the Russian Church.......

  11. #41

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    Quote Originally Posted by anton View Post
    Really? Is he located in Melbourne? Is he Russian?
    http://www.systemaaustralia.com/

    http://www.melbournesystema.com.au/

    Theres some links for you too far away from the Moonee Ponds one but you might be able to get there. Hope this helps

  12. #42
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    Yep go and check it out its great

  13. #43
    Wrong all round. The BTP work is clearly explained as psychologcial on the DVD, and on-one tries to indoctrinate anyone. Perhaps you shouldn't listen to rumours.
    www.systemauk.com
    "Remember it's not a move, it's just a movement" Vasiliev

  14. #44
    Hmmm, this isn't the first time I've heard about this Russian church thing. Where do these rumors come from?
    Last edited by kal; 01-24-2007 at 07:54 AM.

  15. #45
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    Psychological..............??

    Really?

    I have a major in Psychology and I must of been sick the day that lecture was taught?

    Lets see if this video link works. Heh

    http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...6842&q=systema


    http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...7725&q=systema

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