Training for Speed

[Iron_Eagle_76]

Not if you use speed to set up your next move. After 3 powerful punches, you can use 30% of your power on your 4th punch, your opponent will react exactly the same way as your 1st 3 punches (he may still assume it's a 100% powerful punch). This will give you chance to fast switch into your next move since you only commit 30%.

I see what you are saying, but my point is if you have no power in your strikes and rely soley on speed it defeats the purpose.

[Frost]

Its like a powerlifter protocol, because you are taxing your bodies muscles and CNC to the max for the given time ( 3 reps for example) you need full recover before the next set, typically 3-5 min.

yep as i said originally you are targeting power , not endurance or capacity so you need complete rest

[Drake]

is that a compliment (he asks suspiciously)...

Yes.
......

[David Jamieson]

nope i am not and yes you did but not to worry

tabatas protocal calls for 20 seconds on 10 seconds rest, done for 8 sets

what i talked about was at maximum 10 seconds of work, with 3 to 5 minutes rest between each set, i e complete rest that is nothing like tabata

the effects on the bodies energy systems of the above are as different as night and day, what they try to is also different as night and day, one is looking to increase VO2 max and the other increase alactic power

k, gotcha. it's a different protocol altogether.

so, this method is specific to building speed attributes or can be changed up or used according to whatever attribute you want to develop using it?

[PlumDragon]

Reaction training has it's place, but all the reaction in the world won't help you if you are slower than molassus.
Personally I have never been a huge fan of reaction training myself, I have noticed a bad tendancy by some to be "reactive" rather than "active" because of it.

Thats because nobody ever combines things.

Just a simple 1-step reaction to an incoming attack is too robotic, its onyl half the picture. To produce "fighting" skill in a reaction, it has to be a 2-part reaction: Defend-counterattack--one reaction. Once a student can defend-counter reactively at a certain level to any of the standard attacks, then the teacher has to speed it up so the student hasnt enough time to counter attack...like combos. Then the student is performing something like defend-defend-counter, and so on and so forth and the counter is simply part of the trained "reaction". At this point, the student is attacking through the counter...but he is not yet the one "feeding" the attacks.

Just talking about "reacting" doesnt help anyone, it has to be in a well setup drill. As Frost is aware, a good pad holder doesnt just hold up a pad and let you hit and they dont just swipe their pads at your face and make you slip. They give you a swipe or a pop at the side, then put the pad up and allow you to strike it. It has to be mixed up, it has to be random, and it has to be at an intensity commensure with what stresses the student thats being worked with...Thats where skill is created.

[Yum Cha]

In MMA we train it a slightly differently we use short sets of either direct or indirect drills with long rests between sets, we also use reaction drills on the pads and read react explode drills in the clinch.

Becoming faster/ more explosive comes down to two things. First, the nervous system must be developed to contract the maximum amount of muscle as rapidly as possible and the connective tissues must be trained to use elastic energy effectively. This will result in stronger, more explosive muscular contractions. Second, the energy producing properties of the neuromuscular system must be developed to fuel these explosive contractions using the alactic energy system to the maximum of its ability.

The alactic energy system also known as the creatine system or the ATC-PC system, is the most powerful of the three energy systems – though this also means it also has the shortest duration as well., so to properly train it you need to keep your sets short and allow full recovery. First strength levels and explosive strength must be increased, we do this by lifting heavy weights and striving to move them as quickly as possible Once we have increased our strength levels (always trying to move the weights as fast as possible) we then work on the CNS ability to respond using short sets with long rests using either indirect drills: sprints, squat jumps, bounds, box jumps, cleans, snatches throws, BW push ups, medicine ball passes and slams, or direct drills: hitting the pads, the bags, drilling takedowns or throws etc

The key is very short sets, long rest periods to fully recover, and use correct technique at all times, we are working on speed/explosiveness NOT explosive endurance and the methods used need to reflect this

In my TCMA days we used iron rings, poles, f aging work against various objects, seeing how many punches we could throw in a certain time period etc

Nice post, I agree. Universal, not just mma.

The principles are the same, but how we train them is just a little different.

[Yum Cha]

Reaction training has it's place, but all the reaction in the world won't help you if you are slower than molassus.
Personally I have never been a huge fan of reaction training myself, I have noticed a bad tendancy by some to be "reactive" rather than "active" because of it.

( like )...

[Yum Cha]

@ Frost, (yes, compliment here too....)

Doing short forms, like sprints, going into oxygen debt in a less than 1 minute bursts.

You think that counts as:
"alactic energy system also known as the creatine system or the ATC-PC system,..."

I've always thought of it as anaerobic training, like sprinters. The equivalent of doing windsprints. Is that the same thing?

A lot of people are saying something along the lines of "do a technique with encumberance of as fast as you can" repeatedly. I don't disagree, but I think there is more and better.

You mentioned nervous system as well. Can you train your nervous system in isolation, to focus and improve that skill?

Its interesting because Pak Mei uses sprint training, faat ging training, hyper extension and looseness to generate the same power and very close to the same hand as SPM, which trains with dynamic tension and sort twitchiness, almost the polar opposite.

[Frost]

k, gotcha. it's a different protocol altogether.

so, this method is specific to building speed attributes or can be changed up or used according to whatever attribute you want to develop using it?

it depends on what method you are talking about: i am not being an ass here but different energy systems respond to different stimulus but for me the basic premise is try to isolate what you are trying to do with your training programme, in this case increase maximum speed/explosiveness, look at the energy systems used and see what protocals work best for that system

For example personally if i was working on the aerobic system i would work on capacity first: long steady state work within a given heart rate extending the time until i reach the goal of the block which in this case would be increased left ventrical size, more blood and oxgyen pumped with each heart beat and a lower resting heart rate, and then i would work on the aerobic systems power using threshold work at or around my aerobic threshold, first build the base and then work on the power component,

With alactic power the actual increase in length of system is not as important as the power you can generate: say you work for three months to improve the capacity of your alactic system and you get a 30% increase, you have only really gone from say 8 seconds to 11 seconds is that really worth the work? for me it makes much better sense because of the limited ability of the alactic system to change to work on its ability to produce power within its existing framework, where as with the aerobic system because of its enormous ability to change it makes sense to work the capacity first and then the power

does that make any sense?

[Frost]

@ Frost, (yes, compliment here too....)

Doing short forms, like sprints, going into oxygen debt in a less than 1 minute bursts.

You think that counts as:
"alactic energy system also known as the creatine system or the ATC-PC system,..."

I've always thought of it as anaerobic training, like sprinters. The equivalent of doing windsprints. Is that the same thing?

A lot of people are saying something along the lines of "do a technique with encumberance of as fast as you can" repeatedly. I don't disagree, but I think there is more and better.

You mentioned nervous system as well. Can you train your nervous system in isolation, to focus and improve that skill?

Its interesting because Pak Mei uses sprint training, faat ging training, hyper extension and looseness to generate the same power and very close to the same hand as SPM, which trains with dynamic tension and sort twitchiness, almost the polar opposite.

both the alactic and lactic systems are anerobic in nature (ie dont rely on oxgyen to produce energy)

the alactic system only produces power for about 7 to 10 seconds, so any longer and you will be working on the lactic system, using sprints of a minute or so with full recovery would be workig on the lactic systems ability to produce power, working with incomplete rest where you would increase the length of the sprints and decrease the rest time between the sets would be working on its capacity/endurance,

[RenDaHai]

Some great stuff here about explosiveness,

But when it comes to training actual speed, i don't think you can really significantly increase the speed of a punch. I mean, as humans we use our hands in a relaxed fashion all day long, I don't think your hand can move much faster than it does naturally.

But it can certainly move in combination much faster and with more weight behind it.

I always find it is best to find what holds you back and then work on that. For example most peoples hands move well, but their trunk is fairly slow. The Shoulders, Chest, waist and hips can all move seperately, and developing movement and flexibility in all of them i find you can combine powerful moves more quickly.

We would often hold the pads for each other and strike them using our shoulders. Then hold the pads at quite a distance and strike in combination. This way you are focusing on moving the different parts of the trunk of your body which ultimately put the weight into any punches you might do.

This and what YumYum said about breath... Many people exhale like a machine gun, this is not always good. It is scientific fact that the undulation of our breath dramatically effects the brains momentary concentration. Playing with a smooth exhilation during a combo is great. And learning to balance with occasional forceful inhales. Many people try to breath out more air than they breath in, logically it cant work.

One more thing is that many pro athletes will have special programmes for training their eyes. Really. SMoother eye movement and control means you can see the opponant more clearly as he moves. There are plenty of computer programmes available for doing this. Probably even some for your iPhone. Its no joke, it really can be trained, and it really can make a difference.

[EarthDragon]

Renda
so true, when ppl try to pratcie speed drills we subconsciously do the opposite, we move slower. Tah is becuse when we force somethign like we try to move quicker, or we try really hard to punch super fast, we actually tense up which slows our movments. It is said to move fast is to move without tention. however we increase tentio9n when we try to move fast.

I play the drums and the fastest drum roll is the most relaxed the hands, wrists and forearms will ever be, but when we try to drum roll even faster we actually incorporate more muscle fibers which inevidably slows us down.

mantis really relies on speed and we pratcie speed all the time as it is one of the reasons mantis works so well.

my shifu used to say the fastest you will ever move is when you move with instinct. thus you will move before your brain has the opportunity to slow you down.

[RenDaHai]

my shifu used to say the fastest you will ever move is when you move with instinct. thus you will move before your brain has the opportunity to slow you down.

I like that quote.

[Yum Cha]

both the alactic and lactic systems are anerobic in nature (ie dont rely on oxgyen to produce energy)

the alactic system only produces power for about 7 to 10 seconds, so any longer and you will be working on the lactic system, using sprints of a minute or so with full recovery would be workig on the lactic systems ability to produce power, working with incomplete rest where you would increase the length of the sprints and decrease the rest time between the sets would be working on its capacity/endurance,

So, it the alactic system, the stored blood and muscle glycogen and "accessible" sugars that are used before the system starts producing lactic acid?

[Frost]

So, it the alactic system, the stored blood and muscle glycogen and "accessible" sugars that are used before the system starts producing lactic acid?

yep although all three energy systems are actually in use to differing degrees at differing times with the aerobic system always being used, current research has shown that 400 meter sprints, previously though to be almost wholly anerobic are close to 41% aerobic and 59% anerobic

Energy System Power

The body has three principle systems it uses in an overlapping fashion to produce the energy your body needs to survive, to move around, and to try to punch, kick, or elbow people in the face. These systems are known as the anaerobic -alactic, anaerobic-lactic, and aerobic systems.

The three systems vary both in terms of how fast they are able to produce energy, and how long they are able to sustain that energy production. This means that each energy system has a power component as well as a capacity component. You can think of the power component as the size of the engine, the bigger the engine the more horsepower it can create and the capacity is the size of the gas tank, the larger the gas tank, the longer the system can produce energy.



All three energy systems ultimately produce the body’s energy currency known as ATP, but the alactic system can produce extremely high levels of power because it is requires few very chemical reactions to generate the ATP needed for muscular contractions. Fewer chemical steps means ATP can be generated very quickly, but it also means it is capable of using all its energy producing capacity very quickly and generally only lasts 10-12 seconds at max power.