Power generation and momentum

[Hendrik]

Power Generation and momentum, these are the elements of Fajing.

What comes to your mind reading these?

Care to share?


I think these are very important topic, without knowing it one cant play well.
and also knowing it one will be able to predict the outcome of a match even before the match....

Is it just me thinking this way ?


For me there are three basic type of power generation and they are the dead weight lifting, the Squat, and the bench press type.

and then there are different ways of making use of momentum.

Since different type of power generation will lead to different way of handling momentum, the application strategy naturally fuse into it or it fuse into the application strategy.... that becomes the core of a TCMA.

=================


Just a proposal, can we discuss with politeness and focus on technical only? so that we could get positive constructive view from different people.

Aaron, are you here? join us. get technical, I notice you just delete your post.


for me, there are lots of technical stuffs could be shared and learn instead of go back to the tribal chinese way or my tribe versus your tribe, my tribe is better and older then your tribe.....etc which has all kinds of his-story but wasting of energy when it get into kung fu.

[kung fu fighter]

Power Generation and momentum, these are the elements of Fajing.

What comes to your mind reading these?

Care to share?


I think these are very important topic, without knowing it one cant play well.
and also knowing it one will be able to predict the outcome of a match even before the match....

Is it just me thinking this way ?


For me there are three basic type of power generation and they are the dead weight lifting, the Squat, and the bench press type.

and then there are different ways of making use of momentum.

Since different type of power generation will lead to different way of handling momentum, the application strategy naturally fuse into it or it fuse into the application strategy.... that becomes the core of a TCMA.

=================


Just a proposal, can we discuss with politeness and focus on technical only? so that we could get positive constructive view from different people.

Aaron, are you here? join us. get technical, I notice you just delete your post.


for me, there are lots of technical stuffs could be shared and learn instead of go back to the tribal chinese way or my tribe versus your tribe, my tribe is better and older then your tribe.....etc which has all kinds of his-story but wasting of energy when it get into kung fu.

Hendrik,
Perhaps you can start by explaining what the differences are between what you discribe as hua jing compared to what Aaron discribed as detaching the joints in black flag eng chun.

[Hendrik]

Hendrik,
Perhaps you can start by explaining what the differences are between what you discribe as hua jing compared to what Aaron discribed as detaching the joints in black flag eng chun.

Hua Jing means dissolving incoming jing. Aaron is talking about generating power. thus they are different subject.

[Wayfaring]

As Aaron deleted that whole thread on HKB that discussion on power generation is no longer available.

I don't like this trend. If people don't like the way a thread is going, they will delete it. Kind of like a kid picking up his toys, and going home - saying "I won't play with you any longer".

[theo]

what comes to mind for me concerning power generation is:

1. how much power can you generate?
2. how long does it take?
3. how can it be used,manifested?
4. what range can it be effective?

how much power one can generate of course differs depending on how refined our ability to generate one has, but the general process should be the same, since there's only so many ways a human body can be used naturally.

as a close body art, we need to be able to generate the power to support fajing over short distances, such as within an inch. given the distance, the time it takes to generate the power must be instantaneous as well, which implies a need to be able to have fast acceleration.

we also have to be able to use any part of our body as the manifestation of the power when expressed. not only being able to generate the power, but to use it with any part of our body.

[theo]

also what comes to mind is, what type(s) of power are we generating?

[t_niehoff]

Power Generation and momentum, these are the elements of Fajing.

What comes to your mind reading these?

Care to share?

You are going about it from the wrong direction.

To DO what? Hendrik, this is one of your major problems -- you don't just "generate power" for its own sake but to DO certain, specific things. And to DO those certain and specific things, you need to use your body in certain, specific ways (or you won't be able to do them successfully).

So, the root of all this isn't in how you generate power but in what you are DOING to your opponent. If you do the "right" things, you will need to use the "right" mechanics to do them, and so will generate power in the "right" way.

You need to start with the TASK to be performed, and that will lead you directly to the optimal way of performing that task.

[Hendrik]

As Aaron deleted that whole thread on HKB that discussion on power generation is no longer available.

.

If he doesnt feel comfortable going "naked" or having pressure. Then, one needs to respect him. Aaron seems to be a person who is pretty open for discussion.

[Hendrik]

To DO what? Hendrik, this is one of your major problems -- you don't just "generate power" for its own sake but to DO certain, specific things. And to DO those certain and specific things, you need to use your body in certain, specific ways (or you won't be able to do them successfully).

Application strategy and power generation are the two wings of a bird. IMHO.

So, the root of all this isn't in how you generate power but in what you are DOING to your opponent.


If you do the "right" things, you will need to use the "right" mechanics to do them, and so will generate power in the "right" way.

.

Chicken and eggs which comes first, isnt it?
both are needed and can be either way as soon as both are covered. IMHO.

[Wayfaring]

If he doesnt feel comfortable going "naked" or having pressure. Then, one needs to respect him. Aaron seems to be a person who is pretty open for discussion.

While there is not a problem doing this from his perspective, the problem is that someone has taken the time, thoughts, posts of others and deleted those too.

If he is not comfortable with pressure then he should not post his opinions here.

Deleting threads that represent other people's time, energy and posts is dishonest.

[Hendrik]

when doing hua jing, are your joints delinked/unlocked?

how can human delinked/unlocked their joints? is that possible?

Can you discribe what's biomechanically going on t dissolve force?

Go back and read my previous posts on the six directional force vectors. everything is there.

The reason for me bringing up the six directional force vectors is to bring up a tool which one could use to learn about all those jing stuffs.

[t_niehoff]

Application strategy and power generation are the two wings of a bird. IMHO.

Chicken and eggs which comes first, isnt it?
both are needed and can be either way as soon as both are covered. IMHO.

It is abundantly clear which comes first: the task itself. You don't and can't learn how to generate optimal power in throwing a ball WITHOUT throwing the ball. The task itself is the feedback for whether or not you are doing it (generating power) correctly or not. Without doing the task itself, you are only going through the motions.

[Hendrik]

It is abundantly clear which comes first: the task itself. You don't and can't learn how to generate optimal power in throwing a ball WITHOUT throwing the ball. The task itself is the feedback for whether or not you are doing it (generating power) correctly or not. Without doing the task itself, you are only going through the motions.

You have a good point, and might applied to you well.

Does a baby needs to learn how to hold a ball, grasp a ball,....? Does a baby needs to learn how to walk and run and then learn how to play and then join the ball team?


Disregards of what the two wings are needed and one needs to get start some where. and my bottom line is simply, do one get the two wings covered. as for the sequence...etc how one wants to do it that is fine with me.

[Hendrik]

While there is not a problem doing this from his perspective, the problem is that someone has taken the time, thoughts, posts of others and deleted those too.

If he is not comfortable with pressure then he should not post his opinions here.

Deleting threads that represent other people's time, energy and posts is dishonest.

perhaps, the question needs to ask is does the forum provide a reasonable security for people to speak out their technical view instead of getting personal attack.

[Hendrik]

also what comes to mind is, what type(s) of power are we generating?

To be precise, I think it is Momentum generation and handling we are interested in, since it is about collosion and impact....etc.

Since Momentum = speed * mass.

Power generation is the source of speed generation.


Aaron's detach concept doesnt cover the speed part even if one could re arrange the mass or they called it detach....etc. as the boxing falling step is using the dropping of the body mass to pick up, generate.... speed.

As in the HKM clip, one could see it is like whipping Nunchaku. and the end of the Nunchack is shaking. because it is a whipping action, relax muscle is needed instead of tensing muscle, however, muscle is still needed. and the other end of the Nunchack needs to be hold or tie down to a ground or heavier structure....ect. The san chin stance is grasping the ground to form a based. IMHO. and I could be wrong. So, dont trust me.

White crane of fujian is also using the san chin stance with the toes grasping the ground such as the feeding crane calling it " sucking the ground root power" but they dont shake the hands.


and speed comes with acceleration elements which determine how fast the momentum could be generated.


The six directional force vectors concept are explaining how the momentum trajectory and how the impact or neutralization (KFF, Hua Jin) is handle or done.


And, one cant ignore the body because even if as what Terence suggest, the body and whole momentum generation / handling system still needs to be train. otherwise it is an unknown. all Neuron network system needs to be train before it could be used at highly adaptive environment, that is what Terence missed. IMHO.