"Pathology of Iron Palm" Book

[PlumDragon]

KFMers,

Im pleased to announce that the new book, "Pathology of Iron Palm" is NOW available for pre-order. During pre-order, this book is availabe for $5 off the cover price of $45. Pre-order will last for approximately 3 weeks (were not sure exactly how long yet) and we plan to ship all pre-ordered copies of the book prior to Christmas.

If you want to see whats in this book and why its different than other iron palm products, read a description, see the table of contents, or make a pre-order purchase, you can read more here:

http://www.plumdragonherbs.com/catal...roducts_id/255

Im proud to be offering this book and I believe that every one who trains in, teaches, or has a passing interest in iron palm will find new and useful information and concepts to add to your training or information base.

Regards,
Josh

[Dingo983]

If it's as good as your jow, I'll have to get a copy.

[ginosifu]

You know I'll buy a copy... and good luck with it!

ginosifu

[Yum Cha]

With respect, you talk about the Pathology, long term effects and the like. Do you have science to back this up, or do you have the traditional 'explanations?'

My initial impression is that this is a modern 'translation' of the traditional training effects, using western science and pathology? In addition to the training and meds?

[PlumDragon]

Thanks for the positive remarks, guys!

Sifu Gino, I apologize I cannot offer any additional special discount or I would have many people emailing saying, "Me too me too". However, please feel free to contact me through emai or PM and we can discuss some options.

Yum Cha, the "pathology" refers to a TCM 5-element analysis of the organ meridians that are stressed through this type of training. We didnt do any long-term scientific studies, although there is a big chunk of material near the end that uses conclusions from sports science for program design and modification that Ive included from my time as a professional personal trainer under ACE.

But the 5-element part is the result of time with a friend of mine who is a DOM who prefers 5-element theory. This part of the book may provoke some discussion as there are varying views on 5-element theory. However, this only makes up a small part of the book and there are some key points aside from the details that anyone can take from the 5-element discussion that makes the proceeding chapters more worthwhile.

Ultimately, the "pathology" as we call it is only 5-10 pages of a 100+ page book; the book goes on to other things that I feel are as or more important. The "pathology" just happened to be the initial idea that spurred writing for the book; "Pathology of iron palm" is just a catchy title.

By the way, Happy Thanksgiving!!

[sanjuro_ronin]

Not to be an ass but using a scientific name implies scientific foundation.
Do you mention Wolf's Law for example?
Look, when you decide to put up a book on ANYTHING and give the impression that the book is based on science ( which you do when using a term like "pathology") then it falls on the author to back up his/her assertion with science.
Just saying.

[PlumDragon]

Thats fine, I appreciate your view, Sanjuro. If there was a better word to use, I would have used it, its just meant as a catch-phrase. "The Disharmony of Iron Palm" just doesnt make sense to people. But rest assured, we will have a disclaimer in the book about the matter and because of discussion here Im going to add one to the description on the website as well, so people are aware.

Like I said above, its just where the idea of the book came from and actually makes up a relatively small slice of the book.

However, the goal is to appease the masses, and we dont want to hurt anyones feelers, so Im going to discuss it with some contacts and consider replacing the word, as its actually an easy thing to change prior to actually having the book printed, which wont happen still for another couple weeks.

Yes, I do mention Wolffs law, which has 2 f's, BTW.

Maybe the saying shoudl go, "Dont judge a book by its title".

[sanjuro_ronin]

I like to address certain "exotic kungs" with the view of an "outside looking in".
It is very hard for us to have a critical eye on the things we hold dear, we are naturally bias because of the all time, blood and tears we have invested.
Yo get an outsider critical view is crucial for our development as MA and the evolution of the systems we hold dear.
That is how I viewed your post on IP.
In THAT light, it made my comment so that you could see what an "outsider" may think.
Personally I think a book on the realities of IP ( and by realities I mean what is PROVEN and CAN be proven) is far overdue.
You book seems to want to be that, but from the looks of the chapters index, it isn't.
I have no issues with noting what the ancient believed in regards to IP and Chi, 5 elements, jing retention and so forth, I just think that things of that nature that can't be proven should be kept to a minimum and used as anecdotes and that the actual proven physical charateristics and principles should be explored.

[PlumDragon]

Sanjuro, I appreciate the outside perspective. Ultimately, feedback is what I want, I dont have any paradigms on the matter and I dont get insulted when people provide commentary in that capacity.

However, the 5-element part (which, again, is only a small part of things) is not a rehashed look on anything and the book overall is not a traditional re-investigation of iron palm--I dont know anyone or anywhere that has done some of the things inside. Its not that is "secret", its just not usually a focus. I dont talk about Qi, Jing, etc almost at all, and the qigong purists will probably not like what I have to say in the section on qigong. The book is what it is, and it covers things from sports science, materials science, and other topics that arent usual "traditional" stuff.

Of course, there is the obligtory sections on iron palm jow and dit da wan and whatever...But to me, this book covers alot of topics on iron palm that are not traditionally covered. And that is the niche its meant for...So enjoy it or not...

[David Jamieson]

The study of the disease that is Iron palm?

Iron palm is a useful course of study. The method is fairly simple, but requires patience and fortitude.

Using the term pathology I think is a little misleading, especially in context to 5 phases theory, which as a theory is really suffering right now because it is viewed by most of the world as quaint and antiquated and not reflective of truths.

There is NO science in 5 elements theory. It's a guess with a lot of writing and musing about it but no actual tests, repeatable results based on blind tests and control groups etc etc.

It's interesting. like a Ouija board is interesting or pagan rituals from 1000 years ago, but I would avoid it entirely when talking about slow and progressive conditioning.

Slow and progressive conditioning and buildup CAN be explained with science and a method can be derived from said explanation.

Tying to 5 elements is only going to bring convolution it all and give people a weird idea about what the simple practice of Iron palm is.

It's not mystical or secret or super powers. It's fetch wood and carry water.

I guess it's safe to assume that 5 elements theory gets my hackles up and it does so because of it's many epic failures at resolving or explaining things that are easily and almost in an elementary (no pun intended) way shown by other methods of attribute recognition, prognosis or diagnosis.

A instruction of method is good, but making claims to science of it through 5 elements theory? I am not sure I am confident in the material.

[ginosifu]

Plum dragon
Just kidding about the discount. I know there is a lot of you who want to scrutinize kung fu people that put info for the masses. To use the words "the science of iron Palm" or the "Pathology" can be mis leading to some. However information inside this book is just what it is; Information about Iron Palm. Instead of scrutinizing it.... buy it, read it, then give a review. You can only be enlightened by the information inside whether your perception of the information is good or bad.

ginosifu

[IronWeasel]

Title suggestion:

How about Physiology of Iron Palm?

[David Jamieson]

Plum dragon
Just kidding about the discount. I know there is a lot of you who want to scrutinize kung fu people that put info for the masses. To use the words "the science of iron Palm" or the "Pathology" can be mis leading to some. However information inside this book is just what it is; Information about Iron Palm. Instead of scrutinizing it.... buy it, read it, then give a review. You can only be enlightened by the information inside whether your perception of the information is good or bad.

ginosifu

perhaps, but why reinvent the wheel?

[Yum Cha]

Yea, I don't think there are any issues with the content, not even qualified to comment, but when it comes to the marketing, the basic issue is creating a perception in the buyer that they will receive certain information, and then not fulfilling the promise.

Though the information may be A grade, it is the unfulfilled 'commercial' promise that will be remembered, because you have targeted a different market with you pitch than your content.

It sounds like you have taken a fresh and practical perspective to IP training, and included good solid meds and exercises. In a manner, De-mystifying Iron Palm. It sounds like a Complete Guide to Iron Palm Training and Conditioning that includes Traditional 5 Element Theory.

[ginosifu]

perhaps, but why reinvent the wheel?

Normally this would apply to beginners in IP learning about it and it's basic concepts.

For advanced practioners it's like going back to those beginners forms over and over again. Sometimes you pull some gems outta those old forms you have not played in along time.

Another way to at it is if I pick up a book I have not read in a while, it seems I pull ideas and thoughts from it that i did not get before.

I have studied MA for over 20 years and have the chance to study under several teachers. Each person had their own perception of tactics and training habits. I think this type of training gives me insight into MA that people with only one point of view may not have. Everytime I get a chance I get another persons point of view (read their book, look at their video etc etc.).

David,
Yes some material is going to be redundant. Also there are things that don't change no matter how many points of view. I just can't resist the chance to learn something new.

ginosifu