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Thread: How do you defend aginst a front shove

  1. #76
    gino, gottcha, I understand where your coming from and yes yuo could damage the neck seruiously if you have it a acute angle and dropped your body weight on it in that postition.

    Soco and Richard
    when redirecting any oncoming attack the most effective way is always going to be downward, opening the upper gate or closing the centerline, unless a much shorter person is punching upwards at your face, but in the case of a shove, oppponents force can be redirected downward with less effort and greater effect.

    True mastery of self movement means you....minimal effort with maximum results. repelling 2000lbs with 4 oz of force is an old taji saying.

    If you in your next class have a person attempt to push you, lean back slighty and circle your hands around the outside of his hands/wrists and with your handss circle inward and downward to redirect.
    Then try it again upward and outward you will find you are fighting the natural movements of thier body, thus making it more resisting. trust me try it.

    you speak of countering after this, well thier body and head come forward and thier arms are on the outside of yours............. pick your counter... This is a taji push defense the best and most comprehensive I have ever seen, also found in Aikido.
    Last edited by EarthDragon; 12-04-2010 at 08:59 PM.
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  2. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by EarthDragon View Post
    U sould never allow the push/shove to land.... people can shove pretty hard and with some force, you cannot react to counter quick enough once contact is made...jus sayin
    What should happen isn't always what does happen.

  3. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by SJGuy View Post
    What should happen isn't always what does happen.
    Even if the skill is perfect, the Gong will decide whether your skill will work or not. IMO, it's very difficult to discuss any combat moves exchange because we don't know the other's person's CMA background. It's just like the ancient Chinese old saying:

    A. My spear can penetrate all the shields in the world.
    B: My shield can stop all the spears on this planet.
    C: What will happen if A uses his spear to against B's shield?

  4. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by YouKnowWho View Post
    Even if the skill is perfect, the Gong will decide whether your skill will work or not. IMO, it's very difficult to discuss any combat moves exchange because we don't know the other's person's CMA background. It's just like the ancient Chinese old saying:

    A. My spear can penetrate all the shields in the world.
    B: My shield can stop all the spears on this planet.
    C: What will happen if A uses his spear to against B's shield?
    That's kind of what I was getting at. You can theory-fight any combination, etc. but reality is very rarely that perfect.

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    mao dun...
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  6. #81
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    Regarding the front shove and my previous comment of "it depends."

    It's going to depend on where you both are relative to each other. In wrestling, for instance, when the opponent reaches out to tap or push your shoulders, it is very common to post the arms up PRECISELY as shown below

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WOwsLP2N6sE

    This is extremely effective. They are pushing on you, you post their arms up because an extended arm is biomechanically weak, drop under it, and either go for a shot or a body lock.

    If, however, they are holding their hands low, or pushing you low for some reason, you can clear your arms to the inside (your arms pass to the inside and angled down compared to theirs). Posting up would be silly, since their elbows are lower than yours.
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    I didn't pay too much attention on this thread because 1st, your opponent's front shove can't hurt you, 2nd, his front shove can create a lot of opportunities for you. It will be a PLUS and not a MINUS.

    It's like to ask, "How to defend against a beautiful girl who wants to rape you?"

  8. #83
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    YouKnowWho: LOL! and truth
    "In the world of martial arts, respect is often a given. In the real world, it must be earned."

    "A stupid man's report of what a clever man says is never accurate because he unconsciously translates what he hears into something he can understand. "--Bertrand Russell

    "Liberals - Cosmopolitan critics, men who are the friends of every country save their own. "--Benjamin Disraeli

    "A conservative government is an organised hypocrisy."--Benjamin Disraeli

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    Quote Originally Posted by Merryprankster View Post
    It's going to depend on where you both are relative to each other. In wrestling, for instance, when the opponent reaches out to tap or push your shoulders, it is very common to post the arms up PRECISELY as shown below

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WOwsLP2N6sE

    This is extremely effective. They are pushing on you, you post their arms up because an extended arm is biomechanically weak, drop under it, and either go for a shot or a body lock.
    Very nice demo of your point ! Posting the elbows up demonstrates an Kung Fu Maxum: Control the opponents wrist = Control their arm. Control the opponents elbow = Control their Body.

    Thanks

    ginosifu

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    Quote Originally Posted by YouKnowWho View Post
    I didn't pay too much attention on this thread because 1st, your opponent's front shove can't hurt you"
    a shove can can knock you to the floor or make you slam into or fall on something something that not gonna feel nice

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  11. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by goju View Post
    a shove can can knock you to the floor or make you slam into or fall on something something that not gonna feel nice
    If my opponent can knock me out with his d!ck, it may be time for me to get a rope, find a quite place, and hang myself.

    Of course anything can be possible. But "push" is not "throw" because your legs are still free. It's very unusual to see on any SC/Judo/wrestling mat that someone just uses a plain "push" to send his opponent to the ground.
    Last edited by YouKnowWho; 12-13-2010 at 12:44 PM.

  12. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by EarthDragon View Post
    Soco and Richard
    when redirecting any oncoming attack the most effective way is always going to be downward, opening the upper gate or closing the centerline, unless a much shorter person is punching upwards at your face, but in the case of a shove, oppponents force can be redirected downward with less effort and greater effect.

    True mastery of self movement means you....minimal effort with maximum results. repelling 2000lbs with 4 oz of force is an old taji saying.

    If you in your next class have a person attempt to push you, lean back slighty and circle your hands around the outside of his hands/wrists and with your handss circle inward and downward to redirect.
    Then try it again upward and outward you will find you are fighting the natural movements of thier body, thus making it more resisting. trust me try it.

    you speak of countering after this, well thier body and head come forward and thier arms are on the outside of yours............. pick your counter... This is a taji push defense the best and most comprehensive I have ever seen, also found in Aikido.
    Still disagree bro.
    I understand what you are saying, but I still disagree with what you propose (hands circle inwards).

    I disagree with your premise for the following reasons:

    1. It is based on a presumption that you know the attack is coming. If you do not know that the attack is coming, his linear attack (a simple push) will beat a circular defense (circling the hands inward) nearly every time.
    2. If you do not know it is coming, your hands will probably be closer to the lower gate and in a position to block upwards.
    3. What you propose is not a natural responsive body movement. Simply raising the arms from the lower gate to ward off an attack is a natural body response. While the inward circling hands is an artifical response. In Hakko-ryu Jujutsu and Yoshinkan Aikido, both offshoots of Daito-ryu Aikijujutsu, natural body responses are emphasized. One acquires faster muscle memory by doing movements that are natural to the body's instinctual processes than movements that work contrary to it.
    4. The principle of repelling 2000lbs with 4 oz of force applies in either scenario and would apply regardless of the direction the redirect comes from as long as you are not meeting force with force.

    I am by no means saying your method will not work. I just believe what I described can be learned faster and is a more natural means of defense against a surprise attack.
    Last edited by mooyingmantis; 12-13-2010 at 02:06 PM.
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  13. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by YouKnowWho View Post
    If my opponent can knock me out with his d!ck, it may be time for me to get a rope, find a quite place, and hang myself.

    .
    Hello new quote
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  14. #89
    Quote Originally Posted by Lucas View Post
    Hello new quote
    if you need help, i can lend you some rope, friend...

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    Quote Originally Posted by YouKnowWho View Post
    If my opponent can knock me out with his d!ck, it may be time for me to get a rope, find a quite place, and hang myself.

    Of course anything can be possible. But "push" is not "throw" because your legs are still free. It's very unusual to see on any SC/Judo/wrestling mat that someone just uses a plain "push" to send his opponent to the ground.

    of course because odds are a grappler will intelligently defend against the shove not just let himself be shoved

    i shoved people to the ground more than once when i got into an actual fight an i could easily jump on them from that postion before they could get up and punch their face

    if they dont know how to grapple they have little chance of getting my big arse off of them once i get mount

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