Page 3 of 7 FirstFirst 12345 ... LastLast
Results 31 to 45 of 98

Thread: How do you defend aginst a front shove

  1. #31
    mightyB
    if he's shoving with his palms finger tips up, trap both of his palms flat against your chest, step one foot back and bend towards your opponent causing him to hyperextend at his wrists. He will have to yield his position and go with your lock to avoid breaking his wrists. Be careful with this technique.
    this kinda works and I say kinda cuz there lots of factors, however but it could never ever break the wrists. ,might possibly get him to drop to one knee
    KUNG FU USA
    www.eightstepkungfu.com
    Teaching traditional Ba Bu Tang Lang (Eight Step Praying Mantis)
    Jin Gon Tzu Li Gung (Medical) Qigong
    Wu style Taiji Chuan



    Teacher always told his students, "You need to have Wude, patient, tolerance, humble, ..." When he died, his last words to his students was, "Remember that the true meaning of TCMA is fierce, poison, and kill."

  2. #32
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Cleveland, Ohio
    Posts
    888
    Sorry I haven't been here in my thread. My students never showed up yesturday and then I got hung up doing some belt (sash) tests. Everyones input has been great.

    I am going to attemp to descibe our tactics until I can get some vids up.

    First and most important is distancing. Keep what I call neutral distance (neutral distance is the distance when both people can not reach each other without taking a step, usually 3'-4') If this is not possible then tactics may change depending on how close they are.

    Second is turn your body at a slight angle with one leg in the front. (I like my left leg in the front, so our technique will reflect that). Both hands up in a defensive posture near your shoulders. This will keep your hands ready but are not really provocative (A boxers or MA On Guard Stance seems to provocative).

    Tactic #1
    The person is at Neutral distance and launches his shove. Your left foot side steps to your left. Your left hand pak sao or blocks their incoming right hand. Simaltaneously your right hand slaps their inner thigh of their right leg and continues up in a circle around to back hand the orbit of their right eye socket and continues downward. Your left hand swings up and around to hit them in the back of the head (medula area) and drops straight downward (lower spine area). The right hand comes up to the throat and the left hand slaps the spine, driving it inward. Slaps to the lower back area usually cause the body to arch backwards (that's just what we want). Step forward with your right leg behind his legs and use your right hand on his neck to drive him downward. Now your left hand wraps around his right arm as he goes down and put your radius bone up on his ulner nerve and apply pressure upward. Same time take your left knee on put it on his head near YI FENG Accupunture point (right behind his ear) and place all of your body weight on his head. This is a submission hold until someone comes to break it up...

    Tactic #2 The person has closed the distance and is up your face and lauches his shove. Shuffle backwards (if possible) and both of your arms dissolve upwards (block upwards). Your left hand grabs onto their right arm near the elbow and twist under and inward. Your right hand slaps their left cheek and drives their face backwards and to your left a bit (making them look away from you). Normally when you touch someones face one of their free hands will come to try and block our grab you. If his left hand comes to touch your right hand (which is still pushing his face) release your left and bring it under your right to grab his left hand (Trapping technique). Pull his left arm out straight and release his face and swing your right hand around and lay it on his left tricept (ulner nerve area). Step your left leg backwards and take him down with armbar takedown. Once he is on the ground take your right knee and layit on his tricept and put all of your body weight on it until someone comes to break it up.

    These tactics are for that guy who thinks you spilled his beer or looked at his wife or took his parking spot etc etc... This is not a life or death situation so I would not use any killing techniques. Just submission.

    Hopefully when I put the vids up it will explain better than me.

    ginosifu

  3. #33
    gino sifu

    If I may the techniques though thourough seem a bit complicated for just someone pushing you. Is this considering they are really drunk with no fighting expereience? obviously when people push ro shove, it shows lack of fighting skills cuz obviously you never place your hands on somebody, but KISS is always what really works in the street for me or to what I teach for the pratical self defence side of it. The more things you gotta focus on the more can go wrong in a split second.


    This is not a life or death situation so I would not use any killing techniques. Just submission.
    LOL thats a good thing for them right?....... however can you explain what you mean by killing techniques? besides obviously choking stabbing or shooting someone?
    KUNG FU USA
    www.eightstepkungfu.com
    Teaching traditional Ba Bu Tang Lang (Eight Step Praying Mantis)
    Jin Gon Tzu Li Gung (Medical) Qigong
    Wu style Taiji Chuan



    Teacher always told his students, "You need to have Wude, patient, tolerance, humble, ..." When he died, his last words to his students was, "Remember that the true meaning of TCMA is fierce, poison, and kill."

  4. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Merryprankster View Post
    Post his arms up, or swim inside. Clinch/shoot, lift, drop on skull.
    always with the good advice... its like youve actually done this before...

  5. #35
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    4,381
    Quote Originally Posted by Syn7 View Post
    always with the good advice... its like youve actually done this before...
    heres a world class grappler...its not like he is going to punch the guy or anything )

  6. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Frost View Post
    heres a world class grappler...its not like he is going to punch the guy or anything )
    yeah but that would just be uncivilized man... dumptruck his ass, classy sh!t man....

  7. #37
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Cleveland, Ohio
    Posts
    888
    EarthDragon:
    Never underestimate the opponent. All men can brawl / scrap / fight to some extent. I have been in these situations and also work with local police on these type of situations and how they can use them for police tactics. Whether in bar or a parking lot or a restuarant, a guy shoving you may end up getting on top and pounding the carp outta you.

    Killing: the only way I can justify killing is in a situation where there 3 or 4 thugs attacking me. If I feel my life is in peril I will kill (or attempt to kill) the person touching me so I can go to fight the other 2 or 3 thugs.

    An example would be from the first tactic #1. When my right hand backhands hits his orbit and my left slaps the medula, my right hand would immediately go to his chin and push it away from me and my left will pull the back of his head toward me snapping his his neck. Now if that has not incapacited him then I will slide behind him (still holding his head) and lower him down to the ground. As I am sitting him down I lean my chest forward and downward onto his head and with a Fa Jing (explosive or fast snapping motion) snap his his neck downward onto his chest, breaking it instanly.

    ginosifu

  8. #38
    The front shove isn't too much of a concern because it's designed to intimidate and most guys don't know how to shove with concussive force (like the double palm strike in the Jing Wu form tu jin spelling phonetically). So most people are just shoving you, so deal with it with what you think is appropriate. I'm a little against using too much force, so I'd go with Chin Na techniques like deflect and move to your left on the outside of his arms on his initial push, grasp his right wrist with your right hand and pull to extend his arm while simultaneosly elbowing his face with your left elbow (doesn't have to be hard, just enough to get him to give you his right arm) and then apply an armpit hold and take it all the way to the ground. You can hold this lock all day if you have to.

  9. #39
    sny7
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Merryprankster
    Post his arms up, or swim inside. Clinch/shoot, lift, drop on skull.

    always with the good advice... its like youve actually done this before...
    this is horrible advice ... have you guys been in a street altercation? you never voluntatrily go to the ground espeically from a simple push, give me a break.

    I take some guys parking space , I'm out with my wife and going to a diner or a club , Im dressed nice with nice shoes and nice shirt on and on the way in a drunk guy picks a fight with me and pushes me and you suggest grappling? you guys cannot be serious. first anyone who pushes you does not know how to fight, so therereally no threat, he can be talked out of being beat up, or you redirect his push and warn him. by suggesting you go to the dirty ground and fight at the curb or in the gutter shows you are not street smart and have never been to NY LOL

    ginosifu
    An example would be from the first tactic #1. When my right hand backhands hits his orbit and my left slaps the medula, my right hand would immediately go to his chin and push it away from me and my left will pull the back of his head toward me snapping his his neck. Now if that has not incapacited him then I will slide behind him (still holding his head) and lower him down to the ground. As I am sitting him down I lean my chest forward and downward onto his head and with a Fa Jing (explosive or fast snapping motion) snap his his neck downward onto his chest, breaking it instanly
    .

    no disrepsect here to you brother, but it is impossible to break someones neck.
    I am a bone settter and 30 year in kung fu and it requires minimal 900 LBS to even fracture or crack the cervical vertebrae. no human can ever generate that amount of force. sorry
    Last edited by EarthDragon; 11-27-2010 at 11:08 AM.
    KUNG FU USA
    www.eightstepkungfu.com
    Teaching traditional Ba Bu Tang Lang (Eight Step Praying Mantis)
    Jin Gon Tzu Li Gung (Medical) Qigong
    Wu style Taiji Chuan



    Teacher always told his students, "You need to have Wude, patient, tolerance, humble, ..." When he died, his last words to his students was, "Remember that the true meaning of TCMA is fierce, poison, and kill."

  10. #40
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    right there
    Posts
    3,216
    Quote Originally Posted by EarthDragon View Post
    sny7


    this is horrible advice ... have you guys been in a street altercation? you never voluntatrily go to the ground espeically from a simple push, give me a break.

    I take some guys parking space , I'm out with my wife and going to a diner or a club , Im dressed nice with nice shoes and nice shirt on and on the way in a drunk guy picks a fight with me and pushes me and you suggest grappling? you guys cannot be serious. first anyone who pushes you does not know how to fight, so therereally no threat, he can be talked out of being beat up, or you redirect his push and warn him. by suggesting you go to the dirty ground and fight at the curb or in the gutter shows you are not street smart and have never been to NY LOL
    that was far from horrible advice he recomended swimming through the arms to close the gap and to grab the guy to lift him and slam him.He didnt say go to the ground

    having actually done exactly what merry prankster advised in street fight when i was pushed i can say that it works 100 percent. and it didnt result in going to the ground it resulted in him being on the floor with me standing over him

    I am pork boy, the breakfast monkey.

    left leg: mild bruising. right leg: charley horse

    handsomerest member of KFM forum hands down

  11. #41
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    local
    Posts
    4,200
    Quote Originally Posted by taai gihk yahn View Post
    welcome back; place wasn't the same w/out you - people started taking themselves waaaay to seriously...
    thanks, though i must admit my visits will be sparodic in nature. people can take themselves as serious as the fool in them allows.

    the front shove, tiger push, blah, bling, blah... excellent attack when intention is of a higher standard - speeding freight trains and streaking comets cannot be readily blocked by say, er... a simple cranes wing, yet the the folded cranes wing can be utilized to trap the two hands/arms thus opening the nether regions to dragons kicking over the mountains.

  12. #42
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Cleveland, Ohio
    Posts
    888
    EarthDragon
    No problem. When I get my vid up, I will demonstrate it. Fa Jing is the only way to create the amount of force you are talking about. If afterwards you still aren't impressed that's ok too because we don't want to kill people anyway.

    ginosifu

  13. #43
    goju
    my mistake I read it wrong, slaming is ok in my book. I thought he said clinch/shoot list and take down. not throw down.... if you remain standing its all good.

    ginosifu
    I am well aware of jing power its usefullness and its purpose. However using jing to punch or kick is one thing ie using your body to connect the linkes of the body, twisting and upheaving of the fu zong shin, to snap outward to the extremities, however this does not constitute strength enoufgh to create 900 lbs of force. if so you would be the only human in history to acomplish this. I have trained with 2 very high level masters one in gung fu the other in medical qigong, they both can produce incrediable jing on thei own way however this is not its purpose. again as a shifu I am being respectful but with jing would be hard to break the even ulna or radius, never the spine cant be done.

    please dont post a video of you trying.. it would be hard to find volunteers LOL
    KUNG FU USA
    www.eightstepkungfu.com
    Teaching traditional Ba Bu Tang Lang (Eight Step Praying Mantis)
    Jin Gon Tzu Li Gung (Medical) Qigong
    Wu style Taiji Chuan



    Teacher always told his students, "You need to have Wude, patient, tolerance, humble, ..." When he died, his last words to his students was, "Remember that the true meaning of TCMA is fierce, poison, and kill."

  14. #44
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Cleveland, Ohio
    Posts
    888
    EarthDragon;
    I myself can only go by what my sifu has told me because I have never snapped anyones neck. Although theoretical the way I do it seems plausable, however I am not bone specialist. AND I would have never used Fa Jing on my staudent. I would lose all that tuition money !

    ginosifu

    ps. I trust you when say It can't be done...
    Last edited by ginosifu; 11-27-2010 at 04:19 PM.

  15. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by EarthDragon View Post
    this is horrible advice ... have you guys been in a street altercation? you never voluntatrily go to the ground espeically from a simple push, give me a break.

    just coz you dump somebody on their head, doesnt mean you have to go to the ground... you have wrestled before right??? why does everyone always assume its ground fighting like bjj... esspecially greco...

    i have used grappling in street fights oh so many times... in prison it was esspecially handy, everyone wanted to trade shots to the face, nobody saw me comming, nobody... MMA wasnt as popular back then, nobody had an answer... i was 155lbs chumping steroid monkeys with retard strength but very little real martial skill... i fought a couple boxers too, one hurt me pretty good but i still won... the other two went down like a sack of potatoes... and no i didnt go down too... after their head hit the floor they got to feel me stomping their faces, not dryhumping them and waiting for some screw to wander on the range and break it up...
    Last edited by Syn7; 11-27-2010 at 05:49 PM.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •