Styles/Sparring

[ginosifu]

So back on topic:

If no evolution is needed, what do we do to get a better representation out of fighters who are trying to utilize TCMA tactics and techniques?

Everything evolves! All styles must be able to adapt to any given situation.

ginosifu

[MightyB]

so what are your observations then? It's just hypothesis and observations so have fun.

I already told people mine - I think the stances and the on-guard hand positioning need work.

[Yum Cha]

Nope and this is why:
Difference is good, when you bring something different and unique to the table, you have an advantage.
Southpaws know this, unorthodox fighters know this, BJJ showed us this in the 90's.

oh yea. Its like an arms race, everybody is always looking for the next big thing.

Also, stance is just a beginners perspective on footwork. You stand still, sure. Then you do moving, a,b,c,d, etc. Then you do dirlls, then you learn to do it fluidly by applying it. Unless someone gives you a pass to drop back into 'what comes natural' so you can work your "hand" magic.

Footwork is twice as hard as hand work, IMHO. And ringcraft is a big part of that too.

To my mind, with 'perfect' footwork, you could beat GSP with a toothpick covered in cotton. (ok, maybe steel wool).

Look what footwork did for Ali.

[MightyB]

I wonder if we just started beating the h3ll out of each other but forced ourselves to stay within the flavor of "system" what that would do in the long term.

so for me a mantis guy - try to stay within the 3 essentials for style and technique and just find someone who's willing to do the same but within their style. Sure we'd look like 2 monkeys trying to frock a football at first, but it'd probably eventually work itself out. The trick would be to try to develop proficiency without relying on san shou / san da technique that's not part of mantis.

Hypothesizing of course.

[sanjuro_ronin]

I wonder if we just started beating the h3ll out of each other but forced ourselves to stay within the flavor of "system" what that would do in the long term.

so for me a mantis guy - try to stay within the 3 essentials for style and technique and just find someone who's willing to do the same but within their style. Sure we'd look like 2 monkeys trying to frock a football at first, but it'd probably eventually work itself out. The trick would be to try to develop proficiency without relying on san shou / san da technique that's not part of mantis.

Hypothesizing of course.

What is the main characteristic of your style?
As long as you stay within that, you are doing "mantis".
The mantis of today, that deals with MMA, BJJ and so forth is not and can't be the Mantis of yesterday that didn't have those systems to deal with.

[MightyB]

What is the main characteristic of your style?
As long as you stay within that, you are doing "mantis".
The mantis of today, that deals with MMA, BJJ and so forth is not and can't be the Mantis of yesterday that didn't have those systems to deal with.

hard to explain but the zhai yao clip posted in the mantis forum under the thread of the same name that's on top of the mantis forum right now shows mantis in form really well.

guess you could say mantis is a trapping/deceptive style that relies heavily on footwork, speed, and misdirection. It tends to be hand heavy going against the common stereotype for a northern style.

[Yum Cha]

I wonder if we just started beating the h3ll out of each other but forced ourselves to stay within the flavor of "system" what that would do in the long term.

so for me a mantis guy - try to stay within the 3 essentials for style and technique and just find someone who's willing to do the same but within their style. Sure we'd look like 2 monkeys trying to frock a football at first, but it'd probably eventually work itself out. The trick would be to try to develop proficiency without relying on san shou / san da technique that's not part of mantis.

Hypothesizing of course.

Yea, sound's about right. You dance around all awkward, then you figure it out, just like anything else. Once you make it work a couple of time, you get a hint, you work it. For some reason, people just think footwork is 'different'.

[iunojupiter]

From my experience, novice fighters always look like "two monkeys trying to frock a football" when they are fighting each other.
As their experience grows and they learn to make their style work that it starts to smooth out and "look good" so to speak.
I think fighting with your respective style without resorting to generic kickboxing takes time and practice. You need to practice your combos over and over again, starting from stand still with a compliant opponent, and work your way up to doing it on a non compliant opponent. The opening to zhai yao is a perfect one to pratice. Once of my favorites is blocking with a downward press or pat (fu?) to knock the incoming punch out of the way and follow it up with a back fist (gwa choi?) from the opposite hand. Boom-boom, 1-2. Quick and effective.
Pick your poison and practice, practice, practice.

cheers

[YouKnowWho]

If no evolution is needed, what do we do to get a better representation out of fighters who are trying to utilize TCMA tactics and techniques?

I truly don't know how to make our fighting stance any better.

- Raising guard will invite kick.
- Dropping guard will invite punch.
- More weight on front leg will invite sweep.
- Less weight on front leg will invite "run down".
- Square shoulders will expose your center.
- Linear shoulders will give you one long arm and one short arm.

Since when your opponent punches or kicks at you is the best time for you to enter, it's up to you how you want to play your cheating game.

Please watch UFC 2 and see how Royce Gracie's fighting stance. This kind of fighting stance is used a lot in TCMA. It's like holding a sword with both hands and point your sword at your opponent's chest. This way, you can cover both your head and also your belly.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...8954101188149#

[lkfmdc]

all the traditional stances in TCMA exist in "real fights"

BUT they don't exist as static postures like they are trained and conceived by many (most?)

[YouKnowWho]

I think the stances and the on-guard hand positioning need work.

It's up to the distance between you and your opponent. the on-guard posture may not be the best one. Royce Gracie is not a TCMA guy. But his fighting stance looks more like TCMA fighting stance.

http://img821.imageshack.us/img821/3...ightstance.jpg

[lkfmdc]

Royce Gracie is not a TCMA guy. But his fighting stance looks more like TCMA fighting stance.

Royce also can't strike his way out of a wet paper bag...

[Frost]

Royce also can't strike his way out of a wet paper bag...

hey are you dissing on hapkido?!

[MightyB]

I truly don't know how to make our fighting stance any better.

- Raising guard will invite kick.
- Dropping guard will invite punch.
- More weight on front leg will invite sweep.
- Less weight on front leg will invite "run down".
- Square shoulders will expose your center.
- Linear shoulders will give you one long arm and one short arm.

From my perspective - I don't worry about raising the guard - I take what I call the 10 and 2 (term borrowed from drivers ed) approach for hand positioning which is knuckles about cheek height, elbows down and fairly tight resembling a southpaw boxing stance so that by simply dropping pulling in my elbows a bit I can cover my mid section fairly well.

I still keep my weight 60/40 transitioning either to 60 on front, or 60 on back. It's still the basic fighting stance with the exception that I tend to be more square to the opponent than most.

I don't worry about my center line - the elbows in and a good sense of distance take care of that -

Mainly, I want to be able to be offensive. I think TCMA takes on a quasi-Bhudhist approach of passive/defensive only and it's in the forms and the stance. Everything seems to be "if he does this then I do this".

Plus being a little more square facilitates my ability to throw and use my rear hand. Because of my preference for throwing, I use the southpaw stance when I probably should use a standard stance because I'm right handed.

But then again - this is my take and maybe it doesn't work for you.

[EarthDragon]

mightB

So, how do you think TCMA would "evolve" if fighting (and regularly testing those concepts in competition and combat) became the true focus of Martial Arts?

TCMA has been around for thousands of years... you dont think they have evolved and have been tested in competition and combat for centuries? seriously? and you dont think that fighting for your life is a true test?

Mainly, I want to be able to be offensive. I think TCMA takes on a quasi-Bhudhist approach of passive/defensive only and it's in the forms and the stance. Everything seems to be "if he does this then I do this".

its called self defense.. so you want to be the aggresser? or start the fight? im confused, MA is about being able to protect yourself, not the other way around.