Styles/Sparring

[MightyB]

You forgot to ad this part -

Anyway - I thought it'd be fun to hypothesize on what would happen to TCMA if everyone engaged in regular fight training.

So, how do you think TCMA would "evolve" if fighting (and regularly testing those concepts in competition and combat) became the true focus of Martial Arts?

I'm all for seeing a truer representation of TCMA in the fighting world. As a matter of fact - I'd love it. But I'm not sure that it's possible in the given framework that we're operating out of. Maybe there's a way to get it - but I'm starting to suspect that "styles, forms, flavors" or what have you are imaginary constructs... something to pass the time because -

if we did engage in regular fighting, would we continue in the same way we are going now, or would we modify the approach, and would systems, theories, heirechies change because of that?

If not - then what can we do to get a truer representation of TCMA in the fighting world?

[TenTigers]

Also, stance is just a beginners perspective on footwork. You stand still, sure. Then you do moving, a,b,c,d, etc. Then you do dirlls, then you learn to do it fluidly by applying it. Unless someone gives you a pass to drop back into 'what comes natural' so you can work your "hand" magic.

Footwork is twice as hard as hand work, IMHO. And ringcraft is a big part of that too.

it seems to me that people simply don't understand stance. If you are posing, then you deserve what you get. Posing, Extending the hands, standing sideways or 45 at close range will get you killed quickly.

[MightyB]

mightB
its called self defense.. so you want to be the aggresser? or start the fight? im confused, MA is about being able to protect yourself, not the other way around.

"The best defense is a good offense.” - Vince Lombardi

[MightyB]

"The best defense is a good offense.” - Vince Lombardi

The quote is attributed to Clausewitz works 'On War', which is in turn based on the work of Sun Tzu and Mao tse Tung. In it he states that if party A does nothing but defend himself from party B then he will inevitably be worn down and defeated as the attacking party B is free to constantly regroup and attack endlessly. The only option to successfully defend against B is to go on the offensive and remove B's attacking capabilities.

[TenTigers]

If not - then what can we do to get a truer representation of TCMA in the fighting world?

have patience. It's starting to happen, but it's a numbers thing.
How many boxing gyms have guys going into the ring? Most are there for the workout and light sparring, as is with most MA schools, whether it's TCMA or MMA.
(Cage Fitness attests to this.MMA type training without the fighting, and it's selling like hotcakes)
As the numbers increase, as more Sifus alter their training, you will start to see TCMA in more fight comps.
The first UFC was twenty years ago,or so. Look how long it took for MMA to come mainstream.

[TenTigers]

all the traditional stances in TCMA exist in "real fights"

BUT they don't exist as static postures like they are trained and conceived by many (most?)

ah..this is what happens when you skip a page.
so, yeah..what he said...

[iunojupiter]

Earth,
As a Praying Mantis practioner, you should understand the mentality behind TangLang Chuan that MightyB is looking for... we don't start the fight, but sure as hell, we won't let you be the first to land a strike. If we think you're going to hit us, we'll hit you first.
I think that's the mentality Mighty is taking. He doesn't want to start the fight, but he wants to fight aggressively if he has to fight.

To get a truer TCMA representation, TCMA fighters need to fight. They need to train their style in a fighting manner. Train like an MMA fighter, get in the ring alot. Train your style's fighting tactics in the ring against someone who isn't going to let you hit them, someone who is going to make you work for it and hit you back.

This is how my Sifu trains his students who want to be able to really fight. I may not be the best, but I can fight with the "flavor" of my style. (TJMH TLC).

Cheers.

[MightyB]

ah..this is what happens when you skip a page.
so, yeah..what he said...

Gentlemen... I'm talking only about the on-guard stance. I've been known to show many a person that the Ma Sig to Goon Sig (horse stance to bow and arrow stance) is the foundation for the tai-otoshi throw in Judo: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i-RA8P-DY1g

[Iron_Eagle_76]

have patience. It's starting to happen, but it's a numbers thing.
How many boxing gyms have guys going into the ring? Most are there for the workout and light sparring, as is with most MA schools, whether it's TCMA or MMA.
(Cage Fitness attests to this.MMA type training without the fighting, and it's selling like hotcakes)
As the numbers increase, as more Sifus alter their training, you will start to see TCMA in more fight comps.
The first UFC was twenty years ago,or so. Look how long it took for MMA to come mainstream.

It's funny, my old boxing coach told me once only about 10 percent of people who go to his gym and train actually ever have a fight, most are simply there for the workout or for self defense purposes. This carries over into traditional and MMA gyms as well. Reading these forums one could get the sense that all MMA or combat sport gyms are filled with muscle bound, mohawk wearing, tatted up roid ragers who beat the sh**it out of each other six hours a night. The flip side of that coin is that traditional schools are a bunch of pasty white 95 pound nerds wearing silk pajamas and posturing around like a model on a runway.

"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." ~Albert Einstein

[TenTigers]

that's what I'm saying-the on guard stance should be moving, alive, and changing.
I don't think anyone that has ever fought and been hit, will stand there in a pose, hands extended, etc. Outside critical distance, it doesn't matter.pose all you want. Inside, you'd better be hitting or moving. When do you have a pose?

[iunojupiter]

When do you have a pose?

When the camera man snaps the photo of your face mid concanve around your opponents fist?
Look at his 60/40! It's perfect!

[YouKnowWho]

More none boxing fighting stance.

http://img543.imageshack.us/img543/1...ghtstance1.jpg

http://img59.imageshack.us/img59/7665/fightstance2.jpg

http://www.ojirowashi.com/images/shioda.jpg

[Lucas]

if a cma is going to address not sparring/fighting just their own style, many people would need to account for the takedown, yet remain mobile enough to watch out for aggresive striking. a lot of cma you see spar would get taken down easily.

imo cma needs to allow clinch, takedown, sweep, and throwing in all advanced sparring.

[David Jamieson]

OK, so apart from pink Gi wearing chi chuckers of the cult of poo-bah, who on earth stands there and waits in a horse stance to be attacked?

I can't think of anyone outside the context of a chop sockey flick or maybe the off chance of a newbster of just about any style of ma.

point being, stance is your launching platform, motion is the vehicle to move the platform into the best place.

stay mobile. Having said that, who practices "bird stepping" (or something along those lines from your system, it's like really close to the floor hopping) as part of their foot work?
It's similar to t-stepping but doesn't move onto the cross and is a linear reverse of course while constantly changing lead, or an entry with the same or a follow round.

[MightyB]

if a cma is going to address not sparring/fighting just their own style, many people would need to account for the takedown, yet remain mobile enough to watch out for aggresive striking. a lot of cma you see spar would get taken down easily.

imo cma needs to allow clinch, takedown, sweep, and throwing in all advanced sparring.

THANK YOU - this is why I think the stance needs work.