How to increase Punching Power

[Hendrik]

OK, I know nothing about Fajin. If by putting me down will make you feel good. Go ahead and be my guest.

I am just state a fact. and you always think personal.



If you know, then please share with us what is the different between Fajing and ordinary strike or hitting?

What is Fajing? What is the mechanics behind the fajin, including the momentum generation and the discharged? how does that different then striking/hitting with muscular force and body weight?

up to now, you have not present the above.

Could you get into technical?

[FongSung]

Regards momentum I interpreted it as following through, over extending, turning of torso to gain power.

I dun know about you guys but I am told my punches get heavier one after another. Saying that I don't like to chain punch more than 3 times b4 changing tactic. I can not prove that with words.
I figure as long as you r hitting the target you are regenerating power. But that's just me.

Like the founder of YiQuan had his sons doing post standing for years before any explaination, so I heard from direct student of his son. hmmm.
So like the Korean Bagua guy was told of by his master for trying to ask about and write down all theory. His master said just DO IT when you feel something tell me.

So you don't need fancy explainations to get results, just do it alot, the more familiar with .... argh what the heck I'm not this bored. ha ha anyway I just a student not so knowledgable.

[YouKnowWho]

I am just state a fact. and you always think personal.

Because I always respect other's opinion (even it's different from mine). I'll never put anybody down and say that person doesn't know this and that person doesn't know that.

If you know, then please share with us what is the different between Fajing and ordinary strike or hitting?

What is Fajing? What is the mechanics behind the fajin, including the momentum generation and the discharged? how does that different then striking/hitting with muscular force and body weight?

up to now, you have not present the above.

Could you get into technical?

Fajin = compress to the maximum + release to the maximum

I'll give a try on this. Since Baji is the only Fajin method that I'm familiar with, I'll use Baji as an example. In the Baji system, there are 3 different Fajin.

1. 沉墜勁 sinking power - stand both feet on your toes, sink your body to the ground and then send your downward punch out.

2. 十字勁 expending power - stand in bow-arrow stance, stand on your toes, send your cross punch out as far you can. When you can't go any futher, pull your punch back and send your other punch out.

3. 纏絲勁 twisting power - This is the most difficult one to generate. It's similiar to 十字勁 expending power but you let the power to sorround your body and then send it out.

Baji master Adam Hsu has a very detail explanation in this clip.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MYiko...eature=related

You can see 沉墜勁 sinking power at 2.04, 十字勁 expending power at 2.33, and 纏絲勁 twisting power at 2.32 in the following clip.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CCv9u...eature=related

[Hendrik]

]Because I always respect other's opinion (even it's different from mine). I'll never put anybody down and say that person doesn't know this and that person doesn't know that.

Respect others' opinion is great. However, there is a point that if the person is off the mark. then there is no way to continuous discussion going off the track, and directly tell the person, that is off mark.

Fajin = compress to the maximum + release to the maximum

This really is up to anyone's intepretation isnt it? It doesnt tell What and how isnt it?

I'll give a try on this. Since Baji is the only Fajin method that I'm familiar with, I'll use Baji as an example.

OK, Do you practice Baji?

In the Baji system, there are 3 different Fajin.

1. 沉墜勁 sinking power - stand both feet on your toes, sink your body to the ground and then send your downward punch out.

2. 十字勁 expending power - stand in bow-arrow stance, stand on your toes, send your cross punch out as far you can. When you can't go any futher, pull your punch back and send your other punch out.

3. 纏絲勁 twisting power - This is the most difficult one to generate. It's similiar to 十字勁 expending power but you let the power to sorround your body and then send it out.

this is a list of movements, still what is Fajing?
I give you a hint, What is Jing? what is fa? How to Fa? and What generate that Jing?

Baji master Adam Hsu has a very detail explanation in this clip.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MYiko...eature=related

You can see 沉墜勁 sinking power at 2.04, 十字勁 expending power at 2.33, and 纏絲勁 twisting power at 2.32 in the following clip.

IMHO, Adam has touched the key lightly but he doesnt give details explanation. Thus, anyone following this clips unless already have train in Fajing will not be able to understand it or do it properly.







To those who is curious what I am saying, IMHO, using the Sinking power as example, Sinking power is just the Jack Demsey's Falling Step alike if one tear a part all the movements and get to the core.


So one could keep doing

1. 沉墜勁 sinking power - stand both feet on your toes, sink your body to the ground and then send your downward punch out.

as what YKW wrote here and totally lost in the movements and mimicing. But never really know the "falling step" and cant have the power , cant develop it, cant applied it, because one lost in movements and whatever not.

one can practice mimic-ing the movements for decades and get knock out by a boxer's falling step punch but clueless of what is going on.

This is a big problem in TCMA.


if one knows fajin, one has to be able to read others jin or lik to a big extent.

Also if one know fajin then one will not make equavalent between Relax and six directional force vectors because they means different things and work in different domain.






I am not a Baji guy but a WCner, from my eyes of practicing the Yik Kam 4 section SLT, here is what I see, and
let me decode for you in the layman term in term of physics on the beauty of Baji fajin.

沉墜勁 sinking power = weight droping power/momentum
十字勁 expending power = friction + elastic power/momentum
纏絲勁 twisting power = angular/ rotational/ swing power/ momentum

in an advance level, these three will be fuse differently to applied.

The long Yik Kam 108 SLT has all of those however one needs to know where to look and the six directional force vectors is a tool to aware of it.


Thus, fajin is a handling of physical phenomenon it is not some moments which doesnt mean anything. and because it is about handling of physical phenomenon, it is called formless because it could take different forms.

Thus, in summary, there are lots of indication one could use to see through other's understanding in the subject. I dont like to be critical, however, to discuss something one needs certain level of background instead of like most of us thinking we know but we actually dont.

[Hendrik]

Personally, IMHO

Honest discussion and true cultivation of Advance TCMA is always difficult. and sometimes sad because one has to tear down everything one build up and starts from scratch. Not simple at all for me.

I remember while I am practicing a type of internal art, I am practicing for more then an hour per day every day and for about six years non stop, only to find out I still didnt get it and has to called Mainland China's sifu and start all over again.

I wish I have a sifu who could taught me everything I know today and that will save my decades of search and search and organize and ..... But then there is no one sifu could know it all...... so the saga continuous on...

Power generation? one couldnt even get the basic if there is no experience sifu who can applied it lively to teach one --- too subtle and lots of handling details in the begining.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K9nIUqrZ5kY

[YouKnowWho]

Do you practice Baji?

I have trained Baji for the past 32 years.

like most of us thinking we know but we actually dont.

This kind of statement may make you feel good but may upset others. I won't make such statement if I were you.

沉墜勁 sinking power = weight droping power/momentum
十字勁 expending power = friction + elastic power/momentum
纏絲勁 twisting power = angular/ rotational/ swing power/ momentum .

1. 沉墜勁 sinking power - stand both feet on your toes, sink your body to the ground and then send your downward punch out.

2. 十字勁 expending power - stand in bow-arrow stance, stand on your toes, send your cross punch out as far you can. When you can't go any futher, pull your punch back and send your other punch out.

3. 纏絲勁 twisting power - This is the most difficult one to generate. It's similiar to 十字勁 expending power but you let the power to sorround your body and then send it out.

You are talking about general definition (abstract). I'm talking about how to train in order to get there (concrete). The abstract definition is not going to help anybody here but the concrete training method may.

[Hendrik]

I have trained Baji for the past 32 years.

Good to know. Thanks!

I would love to learn the Baji door opening elbow technics from you.

Originally Posted by Hendrik View Post
like most of us thinking we know but we actually dont.

This kind of statement may make you feel good but may upset others. I won't make such statement if I were you.

I dont say it to feel good. I said it because it is a reality.
and you are correct it is political incorrect.

I sincerely appology if this straight talk offense anyone. I dont mean to be critical. but concern on missing an inch off a thousand mile.

You are talking about general definition (abstract). I'm talking about how to train in order to get there (concrete). The abstract definition is not going to help anybody here but the concrete training method may.

That I disagree with you.

What you describe is a series of moments it is in fact not concrete, it doesnt give the reason of doing it and the result need to be attain.

Even Adam Hsu's demontration is fuzzy because he is hiding the art. IMHO. Sorry to be straight forward. For example the reel silk or twisting generation needs to transport the jin to different part of body he didnt really emphasis in it while he is demonstrating that part.
However, anyone who know reel silk knows Adam is reeling silk at all of his demonstration. Take a look of his body.

What I describe is the principle it is not abstract at all.

The problem with following moments and dont know the principle is one could spend a life time on drilling but go no where.




For me,

according to your post in Baji, three basic types of power/momentum generation or force issuing methods are:


1, using of droping body weight. 2, using of friction and elasticity, 3, using of angular momentum.


and at advance level one will be expected to combine all of these.


or going throught the process below:


using the dropping of body weight to generate the first innertial,

then using the friction and elasticity to amplified it,

and then using angular momentum to transmitting to different part of the body and making use of the past momentum.


Without knowing this will have no direction to train even if one follow the instruction one still dont know what is one doing and expect to achieve.

With mastering of the above principle one could use any shape to fajin. IMHO.

And as you know, jin can be issue via different part of the body with the generator not turning off. That is my point to you on all other posts. The generator is not turning off and on and off but keep it on just changing the "gear" to issue from left or right or up or down or ....


That is what I pick up via my SLT training, because SLT means to "know your opponents' art via the details training" I could be wrong because I am not a Baji guy. However, if I meet a Baji opponents I have to sparing with, I would use the above as reference to know his power type.


just my opinion, you dont have to agree with me.

[IRONMONK]

now this is real punching power

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XLQlyuXgQ1w

[Graham H]

now this is real punching power

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XLQlyuXgQ1w

Funny I thought that this was a Wing Chun forum. Why post a boxers clip???

Here is one of equal importance to this forum!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h5Y_e5rHj7g

GH

[Wu Wei Wu]

The poster of the boxing clip probably thought that if the discussion was about punching then we should look at the training methods of good punchers. Seems to make sense, no?

Suki

[YouKnowWho]

The poster of the boxing clip probably thought that if the discussion was about punching then we should look at the training methods of good punchers. Seems to make sense, no?

Suki

Agree 100% with you there. We TCMA guys just can't assume that only TCMA people know how to Fajin. Boxers are good at it too. They just do it and don't take much about it. it's our TCMA who love to do more talking than doing.

When you stand in front of a heavy bag, whatever that you can move that heavy bag, that will the the true Fajin and not just punching in the thin air like those clips that I had presented.

Even if we discuss WC here (I trained WC since 1974), we should not ignore other's opinion from other styles.

[Wu Wei Wu]

Fajin = subjective experience, cannot be taught... only interpreted

Power (in punching or as another dynamic) = objective, measurable, results oriented. can be taught in terms of dynamics, training methods, mechanics.

which would you choose... esoteric puffery or a method for increased punch power?

Suki

[YouKnowWho]

I like to train Fajin in the thin air by the TCMA Fajin method. I also like to train my Fajin on my heavy bag. I don't believe Fajin in the thin air only is sufficient like most people believe.

[Niersun]

Happy new year all.

The scientific way is to increase strength and speed in your punching action. Close grip push ups real fast until fail.

Grip strength also has alot to do with it, especially when clenching your fist just before impact and punching through. Strengthening your bones in your hands can produce this.

But, im sure a few people on here will disagree

[Sardinkahnikov]

Happy new year all.

The scientific way is to increase strength and speed in your punching action. Close grip push ups real fast until fail.

Grip strength also has alot to do with it, especially when clenching your fist just before impact and punching through. Strengthening your bones in your hands can produce this.

But, im sure a few people on here will disagree

Interesting take; they say that Bruce Lee was a big believer in grip/forearm strenght to increase punching power.

In WCK, despite my brief expose to the style, I managed to develop a somewhat decent jing choi by simply practicing it over and over again, paying attention to how I was using my elbow and keeping my hips tucked in. I found it also important to try to not engage the back or the shoulder muscles - mostly by not letting the elbow retract and go past the body a la boxing, using the body to drive it instead. When practicing against someone it's hard to not tense your shoulder or back, so this is a very important point to consider, IMO. In the end, I was under the impression that I was launching the fist with the center of my body.

Sincerely, all this discussion about fajin or whatnot simply goes over my head and makes it spin, since I can't read chinese nor have I anything more than a superficial understanding of such concepts. The key to powerful punches, I think, is in (proper) practice, however.