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Thread: Bagua Historical Swordsmanship Project

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  1. #1

    Bagua Historical Swordsmanship Project

    Bagua Historical Swordsmanship Project

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5JlNzt9pnlM

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ywcuD3qHwV4

    In recent years, thousands of dedicated researchers and practitioners have devoted themselves to reconstructing the Historical European Martial Arts from period treatises. Others have revitalized their living traditions of Chinese swordsmanship by applying the same principles to the forms of their traditions- treating the forms, in effect, as treatises to be interpreted.

    I am an instructor of a Western sword art (see www.cateransociety.com) who cross-trains in Chinese swordplay and Yin Fu Baguazhang of the Yin Yuzhang branch. One thing I’ve noticed since I began to study Baguazhang is that there seems to be a lot of public skepticism in the martial arts community about the ability of internal martial arts practitioners to apply their training in actual conflicts.

    In the early days of Baguazhang- when the art first earned its combat reputation- it could not have been primarily a boxing art, as empty-hand skills would have been of secondary importance at most to the bodyguards and caravan guards who practiced it.

    To me, as a historical fencer, this begs the question- “can Bagua still be used as an effective style of swordsmanship?” It seems to me that this line of inquiry will be a lot more fruitful than trying to apply Bagua in an MMA context. Bagua didn’t earn its original reputation in an MMA context, but in battles with cold weapons. If this art was effective for keeping bodyguards and caravan guards alive in fights with bandits and assassins, it should still be just as effective in freestyle fencing with the same weapons.

    The Bagua Historical Swordsmanship Project is my attempt to address these questions, through applying my own training in Yin Fu Bagua to bouts against skilled opponents from my own school of Western swordsmanship as well as other training partners. Please bear the following points in mind:

    1- Some practitioners reject any kind of sword work on the grounds that it’s not practical in the modern world. You will sometimes hear the argument that warriors of the past were strictly pragmatic, abandoning obsolete weapons as soon as they were no longer needed. From our research into European sword history, we know this just isn’t true. The Belgian fencing guilds, for instance, continued to practice longsword fencing for centuries after it no longer had any battlefield utility, and they would probably still be doing so if the practice hadn’t been banned during the French Revolution. Fencing with historical weapons is a fascinating activity in its own right, and there’s no reason not to attempt it with Chinese weapons.

    2- While I am an experienced instructor and competitor in Highland Broadsword, I am just a beginning student of Yin Fu Baguazhang and have only limited experience of Chinese swordplay. I am not presenting myself as an expert representative of Yin Style Bagua, merely as a skilled historical fencer who enjoys practicing Bagua on the side. Nevertheless, I hope to show that the fighting tactics of Bagua can be applied effectively against a resisting opponent.

    3- Most online videos of Chinese martial arts show demonstrations of the forms. This has always seemed a little odd to me, because the forms are, after all, primarily training drills. The goal of a martial art should not be high-level skill at performing the training drills, but at applying them against real opponents. This project will include a limited number of applications videos, but will be focused on freestyle bouts with historical weapons.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    North Canton, OH
    Posts
    1,848
    Sounds like fun! Where are you located?
    My schools have always done weapons sparring. So we would enjoy that.
    Richard A. Tolson
    https://www.patreon.com/mantismastersacademy

    There are two types of Chinese martial artists. Those who can fight and those who should be teaching dance or yoga!

    53 years of training, 43 years of teaching and still aiming for perfection!

    Recovering Forms Junkie! Even my twelve step program has four roads!

  3. #3
    We're in Maine, where are you?

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jan 1970
    Location
    Massachusetts
    Posts
    188
    Check out our league if you get a chance, as it sounds like what you're interested in is very similar to what we're doing:

    http://www.swordleague.com/

    This is what a bout looks like:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ENLp4YoDsak

    Along with Chinese swordmanship, I also have an epee fencing background. Several competitors in our last tournament had backgrounds in historical European swordsmanship, and some had experience in Japanese swordsmanship. We're always open to new folks who want to test their skills in a friendly, yet competitive environment.
    "Without tradition, art is a flock of sheep without a shepherd; without innovation it is a corpse." --Sir Winston Churchill

  5. #5
    Thanks for your interest! I actually train in Scott Rodell's method of Jianfa already, although I haven't competed in any TCSL tournaments yet. Elmo Mackay teaches me Jianfa, and I teach him Scottish broadsword.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jan 1970
    Location
    Massachusetts
    Posts
    188
    Oh, okay---I've met Elmo a couple times when we were both at one of Scott Rodell's Brattelboro, VT workshops. Real nice guy---tell him Kyle said "hi"!

    I haven't heard yet where the TCSL national tournament is going to be this year. This past fall it was in Washington DC, in 2009 it was in Brattleboro, and 2008 was Bozeman, MT. I think Scott has considered the idea of having some smaller regional TCSL tournaments---it would be nice if we could have a New England one. We had a few Vermont folks and myself at the DC tournament, and I would definitely enjoy competing in more events that didn't require a lot of travel and expense. I think it was discussed that for the smaller tournaments, we would just forgo the raised lei tai platform, and instead just mark out the ring on the floor. I would think one could be organized without too much trouble.
    "Without tradition, art is a flock of sheep without a shepherd; without innovation it is a corpse." --Sir Winston Churchill

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